Heartland

Wikiislam is hardly an unbiased source.

How do these figures fare when you count (for example) the 600,000+ Iraqis dead from the USA's "crusade" there?

Congratulation U.K. you beat France.

Bartek wrote:Congratulation U.K. you beat France.

Yeah, it's very depressing - not just in the UK but across Europe.

Far-right nationalists on the rise in a period of austerity. Rings a bell...

Same thing here in Hungary with Jobbik becoming the second largest party.

What I also find equally alarming is that less than half the electorate (Europe-wide) could be bothered to vote. (in Hungary just over a quarter bothered)
Do people really not give a hoot or are they just ignorant?

in PL less than 25% people voted (at the moment 23,7%), and i can say that at least here most of people are just really fed-up by politic and politicians, that constant bickering with no (positive) results on life of average John Kowalski. Far right party got 1,4% (kinda UKIP or French NF), but in total euro~skeptics got ~8,5%, which is not that bad; although party that at the moment seems to won (Law and Justice), pretends to be catholic-conservative-national is not that big thread, waving crucifix and polish flag doesn't make them even similar to UKIP, they just less open than governing party.

markfiend wrote:Wikiislam is hardly an unbiased source.

Most likely. But the sources cited in the article linked mostly (mostly) seem to come from respectable publications. It's also note the only source he linked - there's NCTC as well.

markfiend wrote: How do these figures fare when you count (for example) the 600,000+ Iraqis dead from the USA's "crusade" there?

I'm not sure how that's relevant to the argument he has made.

lazarus corporation wrote:

Bartek wrote:Congratulation U.K. you beat France.

Yeah, it's very depressing - not just in the UK but across Europe.

Far-right nationalists on the rise in a period of austerity. Rings a bell...

It's even sadder it a fact that people seem learn almost nothing from the past, history. well, that things make me wanna move not only from Poland, but also from Europe.

So....is Farage going to play Admiral Ackbar in SW Ep. VII?


XidiouX

Let me repeat: you people do not even know what 'far-right' is - the way it's used in the mainstream media is a rhetorical trick to create a false political spectrum thru which it's easy to control the debate/perceptions.

You are so bloody ignorant because you believe the propaganda rags whose headlines you read and jump to the 'conclusions' they are meant to lead you. You simply know nothing about reality but your arrogance overwhelms even your ignorance.

What on earth do you think the wholly corrupt establishment would do to try and convince 'the m-asses' that their opposition
is evil? How about PR about themselves, lying about the opposition, and spreading confusion about the issues? Sounds like it could work to me!

But: good for UKIP, i'm surprised how much sense a good portion of the people still have.

And i'm done talking to 'the mob.'

itnAklipse wrote:Let me repeat: you people do not even know what 'far-right' is - the way it's used in the mainstream media is a rhetorical trick to create a false political spectrum thru which it's easy to control the debate/perceptions.

You are so bloody ignorant because you believe the propaganda rags whose headlines you read and jump to the 'conclusions' they are meant to lead you. You simply know nothing about reality but your arrogance overwhelms even your ignorance.

What on earth do you think the wholly corrupt establishment would do to try and convince 'the m-asses' that their opposition
is evil? How about PR about themselves, lying about the opposition, and spreading confusion about the issues? Sounds like it could work to me!

But: good for UKIP, i'm surprised how much sense a good portion of the people still have.

And i'm done talking to 'the mob.'

Your constantly repeated claims that everyone but you is "ignorant" and "arrogant" are possibly the most classic case of projection I've ever seen.

And you keep announcing that you're not going to bother posting here anymore, then you keep posting here.

The only positive thing about UKIP's "success" is that they seem to have killed off the even more overtly racist BNP.
UKIP only polled 10% here in Scotland, so 85% voted for pro Europan parties overall.

@itnAklipse:
i would ask you to enlighten me about 'far-right', but i guess that then you would reply that my small pea-brain is not capable to understand it, deepness of it, massage and priority of far-right nation loving boys (and girls). but since you're done talking it's pointless anyway.
peace and love, drink tea and smell flowers.

I haven't voted in any UK election since the general election in 1997. That was the first one that I was eligible to vote in and the last one when I felt my vote mattered/when I had a clear sense that there was a positive option: wanting to vote Labour in and not just the other lot out.

'Apathy' doesn't even begin to describe how I've felt, to an increasing degree, since, as successive opportunities to exercise my democratic right have come and went. Cynicism about all politicians and the voting public gradually replaced any sense of optimism I may have once had about the democratic process.

But I am aware of the old adage that for evil to triumph, it's sufficient for the good man to do nothing and this UKIP result is perhaps starting to awaken me from my slumber. My question is: what can a 'good man' in the UK realistically do, here?


XidiouX

XidiouX wrote:My question is: what can a 'good man' in the UK realistically do, here?

1. Vote. Add your voice to the others against far-right extremism. You might not feel that one voice/vote counts for much, but a majority is just the sum of a lot of single votes like yours.

2. Convince other people to vote. Refer them to the above.

I don't think it's the far right that's ultimately the problem. I think that their success here is more a symptom of the failure of the mainstream options.


XidiouX

I was going to say something in ignorance but I feel such a wave of arrogance overwhelming me that I am going to have to stop until it subsides

XidiouX wrote:I don't think it's the far right that's ultimately the problem. I think that their success here is more a symptom of the failure of the mainstream options.


XidiouX

I agree with you to some extent. I'd say that the general disengagement with mainstream politics by the majority of people in this country (since the majority didn't vote) is the reason that

• mainstream parties have drifted towards blandness and tedious soundbites that amplify that disengagement (because there's a much smaller core of floating voters to "win"), and
• far right parties such as UKIP have emerged with the archetypal "blame others" scare stories to take advantage of that disengagement

XidiouX wrote:I don't think it's the far right that's ultimately the problem. I think that their success here is more a symptom of the failure of the mainstream options.


XidiouX

Poland/Poles have much, much less experience in true democracy, yet i got feeling that even here problem is this failure of the mainstream options. in last election people for the first time didn't vote against main opposition party (law and justice), they found other option, now they abandoned them for eccentric guy, talking his Rand-type-libertarian opinions (when you're young you feel invincible) for last 25 years (they can think that at least he's the one who don't change this believe), who's generally against EU and democracy. but that's mainly a choice of young people, and that is saddest part, because it shows that they, one who's watching politic for relatively short period of time, are cynics to the bone and that was caused by this stupid small-time wars that brought absolutely nothing, that politicians siting in their ivory towers and think that they know what's going on "down there"; but obviously other, more down to earth problem is simple lack of jobs and perspective for the future in current economic and high unemployment rates within young people.

sultan2075 wrote:

markfiend wrote: How do these figures fare when you count (for example) the 600,000+ Iraqis dead from the USA's "crusade" there?

I'm not sure how that's relevant to the argument he has made.

They were not killed by Muslims, and the word crusade does have pretty strong implications of a religious inspiration.

UKIP's racism tends to get lost in the sectarian and (increasingly) racist mutterings of our elected representatives generally over in our little piece of paradise. Apparently our First Minister claimed this morning that he doesn't distrust all Muslims, in fact he said some he'd send to the shop for him and trust them to bring back the right change.

markfiend wrote: They were not killed by Muslims,

By whom then? Martians?

to be fair, they were killed by both brother in religion (but not sect or version of it, if you wish) and democracy-n-peace-bringing troops.

Saw a hilarious impressionist on TV last night doing Nigel Farage, saying that UKIP would have nothing to do with the Front National because they are racist right-wingers with loathsome views!! Then I realised that it was the real Nigel Farage.

nowayjose wrote:

markfiend wrote: They were not killed by Muslims,

By whom then? Martians?

By Americans. Most of whom are Christians.

For f*ck's sake. Are you going to keep on with the Muslim-bashing or are you going to admit you're wrong?

markfiend wrote:

sultan2075 wrote:

markfiend wrote: How do these figures fare when you count (for example) the 600,000+ Iraqis dead from the USA's "crusade" there?

I'm not sure how that's relevant to the argument he has made.

They were not killed by Muslims, and the word crusade does have pretty strong implications of a religious inspiration.

Christ man, I know you think Christians are hiding under the bed waiting to oppress you but that's just ridiculous.