Any thoughts on Ched Evans?

[Silver_Owl]

we might choose to shut down the FPL section just because you're leaving it? why on earth would that need to happen?

It wouldn't Jo.
It'all just be a slightly less intimidating environment.

But how will we go on without Johnny....

[Mav787]

It doesn't seem threatening to me. It sounds like an opinion. I might not agree with it. But it doesn't make me want to leave the forum.
He's not stating his opinion in an official capacity or threatening you if being banned if you don't agree.

I understand your frustration in other threads regarding Wayne.
Still - I ask you to take some time out.
No need to leave as I see it.

I like a debate as much as anyone but a debate involves people considering the other side's points and occasionally conceding that they might be right, at least on a point or two.

Nowadays on here this just doesn't happen. It's all very black and white.

I don't like Mark's comment about being deeply suspicious of anyone still supporting Evans. What is he suggesting? That anyone who does is a misogynist? closet rapist? what?

Even worse is that people who were friends in the real world are now at each other's throats. It's terrible to see it happen.

As such I'm taking a break from posting on here. I'll help Pista with checking the FPL scores but I won't be posting. I'll lurk from afar and if things change for the better then I may come back.

[Johnny Rev 7.0]

But how will we go on without Johnny....

Same as always. Living in your own little shells, thinking you know better than me. Which you don't

[Silver_Owl]

But how will we go on without Johnny....

Same as always. Living in your own little shells, thinking you know best.

[Johnny Rev 7.0]

You really are a cheap cunt sometimes.

I guess being a Derby County supporter does really help your image either.

[Silver_Owl]

Keep it coming mate.
Is that the best you can do?
I thought you'd left anyway...

[Pista]

Even worse is that people who were friends in the real world are now at each other's throats. It's terrible to see it happen.

That is what's saddest.
You know what? Friends will fall out. Friends will make up again.
As a friend of mine used to say, "Take a drink."

I'm seriously hoping this blip in the matrix is just a blip.

[Being645]

But how will we go on without Johnny....

Same as always. Living in your own little shells, thinking you know best.

Indeed, as hardened as the fronts are now ... ... with people nothing but throwing the pieces ...

Anyway, IMHO, it's always better to express one's anger than keep it behind.

[Johnny Rev 7.0]

I thought you'd left anyway...

My bad.

[EvilBastard]

[emilystrange]

good grief. this is hardly a hardened battlefield. try mumsnet for real arguments.

[Bartek]

Since thread it de-railed anyway, here's my few pennies:

I like a debate as much as anyone but a debate involves people considering the other side's points and occasionally conceding that they might be right, at least on a point or two.

Nowadays on here this just doesn't happen. It's all very black and white.

That's how it looks outside. Like there's a some sort of small gangs, that agree with each other and heckle those who saying something that is against that view. No discussion, no debate. That's not how HL looked few years ago.

I used to love debats here (even that my inglese is not good enough to keep up with everyone, to be as eloquent as some), now it's simply taking a sides and standing at a fixed position, not even daring to move one inch.
That's not far political discussions/theatre, that's how we let it happen between people who used to respect each other and could agree to disagree andstill had some dialoque, discussions, considered some arguments, fought that used contrarguments not mainly by ad homine.

And it's true that people who were here active and left this place have similar opinions about current state of HL. Don't close your eyes, don't predent that everything is as it was. Don't try to switch it - not saying that anyone did that already - by argument that lesser number of active members, those who stopped post here is only a reason of getting older, because of work, family duties and so; some yes, but i don't believe that most.

[Silver_Owl]

Bart - What is your suggested solution to these issues?

[Bartek]

The most simple of simplest: we must learn again how to talk and listen, how to manage debate not just exchange opinions with addition of personal attacks and slurs.

[stufarq]

First, let me make clear that of course I agree mods have every right to personal opinions. That argument was unfair and unworthy.

However, I do agree HL isn't as nice a place as it was. I don't think it's entrenched opinions, though, or taking sides. I think it's simply that some people here (and no, I won't name names - that won't help at all) have become far too willing to make personal or snide remarks, or be unfairly dismissive of people, or get worked up and turn an argument into a shouting match. All of these things have made various threads turn nasty. Sometimes it's people who have always done that now and again, but they're doing it more now. But sometimes it's people I'd never have expected it from. And it's been getting worse over several months. Mean has become the new black.

I've been on the receiving end myself sometimes, but I'm not going to leave. That's an overreaction. But nonetheless it's a reaction to something. Instead, I'm going to appeal to everyone - and I mean everyone - to step back and have a think about what that something is, and whether there's anything you can do - or rather stop doing - that'll reduce the tension around here and help get things back to the way they were.

And if you think "Ah, he's talking about everyone else," then you can be pretty sure I'm also talking about you.

And before I'm accused of applying that maxim to everyone but myself, for my part I'll avoid making the same old criticisms of the live shows. That debate's been had many times, everyone knows my opinion, and apparently some people don't like it, so there's no point falling out over it. (NB I'm not saying criticism of the Sisters should be off limits - that would be silly - I'll just avoid rehashing an old argument if it upsets people.)

Now, who's prepared to join me in this embarrassing group hug?

[markfiend]

Group hug indeed. Thanks.

[million voices]

I don't post much but I agree.

Love and peace.

Is this Hippy Goth?

[Pista]

Now, who's prepared to join me in this embarrassing group hug?

Count me in

[EvilBastard]

Now, who's prepared to join me in this embarrassing group hug?

Count me in

I'll join in so long I can be the one at the back, shuffling his feet and contemplating his Guinness, uncomfortable in a suitably-English way at this public outpouring of emotion and display of affection, before putting an arm around Fiendy and slapping his back in a manly, not in a male-bonding, way - and I swear, if anyone says "Bring it in, come on, let's hug it out", then I'm taking off and nuking the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

I'm all for dialectic - it is only through discourse and argument that we learn and evolve and eventually get the fuck off this poxy little planet. I don't believe that ad hominem attacks are useful in this instance, and are the resort of little minds, little thinking. I'm put in mind of a quote attributed to TELawrence: "So long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people; a silly people; greedy, barbarous, and cruel." I think this could be applied just as aptly to any group - if we fight amongst ourselves, and not against the greater evils of injustice, bigotry, and intolerance, we allow these evils to flourish and prosper. And I don't think that's a good thing.

[Swinnow]

Puts on 'Lady Moonlight' and adopts hippy goth mode too

[lazarus corporation]

NO ONE SAID WE HAD TO LISTEN TO ALL ABOUT EVE - THAT'S A STEP TOO FAR!

[Pista]

NO ONE SAID WE HAD TO LISTEN TO ALL ABOUT EVE - THAT'S A STEP TOO FAR!

[stufarq]

Agreed, as little actual touching as possible. Now everyone go to your rooms and think about what you've done. (AAE optional.)

[EmmaPeelWannaBe]

How about air hugs?

[Pista]

How about air hugs?

Funny you should say that.
Last night I was covering a The Cure show & we actually formed an air band.
We even have air roadies

Air hugs would work