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Posted: 10 Jul 2019, 14:30
by Being645
An wrote:All this debates about Hussey and Eldritch reminds me very of Gilmour vs. Waters of Pink Floyd. Each band has to have its powerstruggles.
That's a similar but also very different case. Above all, they had the courts decide it.
As to power struggles, it is always a personal decision what means to chose and how far to go for one's one advantage ...
but hey, some Eldritch suicide would have made them absolutely great ... and no word would ever have followed as to their dirty deeds
if only they had mourned loud enough ... fortunately, for once, he had seen worse before in life ... and he had made a few friends underway.
Posted: 10 Jul 2019, 15:26
by Swinnow
Comparing '85 Sisters with '82 Floyd is a bit like comparing Aldi with Waitrose, though around that time I often ranked Von up there with Roger Waters as one of British rock's great curmudgeons.
Yeah it never went legal, maybe because both sides hardly had a brass farthing unlike the unlimited resources available to the Floydsters, or perhaps because neither side was too sure of their footing. Both were more than happy to take cheap shots for publicity using the useful idiots at weekly music inkies. This served both sides well as it gave the fledgling Mish a boost and kept the names of Eldritch and The Sisters alive in the eyes of the rock media when no other option was open to him, or at least no other ready option that he would allow himself to take.
Salad Daze, as a book, is not harsh on Eldritch, though obviously it is Hussey's recollection, though over their many years together I imagine Adams has had at least a hand in adding colour to those memories.
To be honest it just makes me look forward to 'Paint My Name' as I would expect a filling out of the sketch of 80's Eldritch with tones applied by Gunn and Marx to add to outline provided by La Huss and my own memory.
Posted: 10 Jul 2019, 23:03
by Elfink
I can't see Wayne being serious about anything and I mean that in a good way.
Gilmour had a career that he'd spent fifteen years building. He knew a solo tour would keep him in baked beans and best butter but a Pink Floyd album and tour would keep him in extreme wealth. and after playing guitar like that for all those years Christ he deserves the wealth...it's just that his songs were s**t...Worse than Wayne's for sure. And that's gotta sting Roger, seeing a great name make a corporate rock band of themselves. Those 2 albums after Roger...just no.
But Gilmour had been Pink Floyd..just as much as Roger. For me, if you take Rick Wright out you lose the sound, take David out and you lose the sound, take Roger out and you lose the band, the identity, the force, the 'aims and objective'. They were Roger Waters and needed david and rick to make the right sound.
So..very similar...the Sisters were Andrew but they needed gary to write the best songs, wayne to play 'em and Craig to be Motorhead.
But I think that the spat was a publicity shot. It was Eastenders..With Pink Floyd it was serious.
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 00:19
by Yggdrasil
Being645 wrote:Yggdrasil wrote:
Good to know! ...
... Do you remember where this Morrison interview can be found?
I just saw it posted on a SoM FB group last week, but I haven't been able to find it again, hence the vaugeness – I did try. The PM interview was posted as a JPEG, and it was in a the same thread as a lengthy quote by the producer going into to quite some detail about the recording. It might have been posted by Phil Verne, but as I said, I haven't been able to find it again despite trying.
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 00:21
by Yggdrasil
eastmidswhizzkid wrote:
i think the relevant passage in Wayne's book has just been misread as what he says is:
"We had an idea to release a covers EP featuring the two tracks we'd began recording earlier, 'Emma' and 'Knocking On heaven's Door', and so booked into Strawberry yet again to finish and mix the two songs..........................Neither song saw the light of day while Craig and I were still in the band though I do believe they became available on bootleg shortly after our departure.
..................................
'Emma' was eventually officially released with a newly recorded vocal by the 'Dritch as an extra track on the later TSOM 12-inch single, 'Dominion'. "
All of which is true however it is written in an ambiguous way which could be read as meaning that that particular recording of 'Emma' was the one eventually released.
Very true – that does read very differently from how I've seen people interpret it. He sure doesn't claim he or Craig is playing on the released version, he just doesn't know much about it, which is only natural.
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 02:33
by majorsixth
I think this is the Patricia snippet:
www.facebook.com/groups/170437917313842 ... 922967409/
and the producer is quoted on wikipedia:
Producer Hugh Jones: “Most of the music for ‘Emma’ was recorded at The Church Studios in Crouch End, North London, with final overdubs and mixing done at Master Rock (horrible name!!) Studios in Kilburn. Patricia did technically play bass on the track, although there was a lot of sampling individual phrases, moving them around and inserting them where we wanted. Yes indeed, we did record the vocals at a live venue.
Andrew had attempted to record ‘Emma’ several times before but had never considered the result to be as good as when they played the song live. So we hired the Kilburn National Theatre and the Rolling Stones Mobile recording truck, played the track to Andrew through the stage monitors, and recorded a number of performances with him singing on the stage. There were lights, dry ice, everything to invoke the atmosphere of a live experience (other than an audience!) The final result is a compilation of a number of those vocal ‘takes’. Very indulgent, very eighties, particularly for a B-side!!�
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 09:20
by markfiend
Elfink wrote:...But Gilmour had been Pink Floyd..just as much as Roger. For me, if you take Rick Wright out you lose the sound, take David out and you lose the sound, take Roger out and you lose the band, the identity, the force, the 'aims and objective'. They were Roger Waters and needed david and rick to make the right sound...
I take it you share my opinion of the Final Cut? I don't think it should count as Pink Floyd, Rick Wright isn't on it. It's Waters's first solo album, and just happens to have David and Nick on it.
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 10:09
by markfiend
I got more than halfway through last night before I had to (reluctantly) put the book down.
One minor niggle: I don't like his habit of footnoting fancy words. It comes across as patronizing*.
* offensively condescending
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 10:15
by markfiend
FFS BBCode fcukup there. Took me about seven goes to get the [size] tags right!
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 10:28
by Swinnow
The Final Cut is actually one of my favourite Floyd albums, nothing is wasted on it, no self indulgence and no filler. Downside is the prevailing mood around the recording sped up the breakup, just like......
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 11:48
by eastmidswhizzkid
majorsixth wrote:I think this is the Patricia snippet:
www.facebook.com/groups/170437917313842 ... 922967409/
and the producer is quoted on wikipedia:
Producer Hugh Jones: “Most of the music for ‘Emma’ was recorded at The Church Studios in Crouch End, North London, with final overdubs and mixing done at Master Rock (horrible name!!) Studios in Kilburn. Patricia did technically play bass on the track, although there was a lot of sampling individual phrases, moving them around and inserting them where we wanted. Yes indeed, we did record the vocals at a live venue.
Andrew had attempted to record ‘Emma’ several times before but had never considered the result to be as good as when they played the song live. So we hired the Kilburn National Theatre and the Rolling Stones Mobile recording truck, played the track to Andrew through the stage monitors, and recorded a number of performances with him singing on the stage. There were lights, dry ice, everything to invoke the atmosphere of a live experience (other than an audience!) The final result is a compilation of a number of those vocal ‘takes’. Very indulgent, very eighties, particularly for a B-side!!�
thanks for that
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 20:13
by Being645
Yggdrasil wrote:Being645 wrote:Yggdrasil wrote:
Good to know! ...
... Do you remember where this Morrison interview can be found?
I just saw it posted on a SoM FB group last week, but I haven't been able to find it again, hence the vaugeness – I did try. The PM interview was posted as a JPEG, and it was in a the same thread as a lengthy quote by the producer going into to quite some detail about the recording. It might have been posted by Phil Verne, but as I said, I haven't been able to find it again despite trying.
Ah, thank you very much for all your effort ...
... That was very kind of you ...
...
I can imagine it difficult to find something on FB ... with the HL Search function as an example ...
...
Oh wow ...
... you've found it ...
... Thank you a lot for posting ...
...
Now it can be linked to as a source where appropriate ...
...
Btw, does anybody know the original source of that interview snippet?
It seems to be an excerpt from a larger one ...
...
Posted: 12 Jul 2019, 07:45
by An
Elfink wrote:I can't see Wayne being serious about anything and I mean that in a good way.
Gilmour had a career that he'd spent fifteen years building. He knew a solo tour would keep him in baked beans and best butter but a Pink Floyd album and tour would keep him in extreme wealth. and after playing guitar like that for all those years Christ he deserves the wealth...it's just that his songs were s**t...Worse than Wayne's for sure. And that's gotta sting Roger, seeing a great name make a corporate rock band of themselves. Those 2 albums after Roger...just no.
But Gilmour had been Pink Floyd..just as much as Roger. For me, if you take Rick Wright out you lose the sound, take David out and you lose the sound, take Roger out and you lose the band, the identity, the force, the 'aims and objective'. They were Roger Waters and needed david and rick to make the right sound.
So..very similar...the Sisters were Andrew but they needed gary to write the best songs, wayne to play 'em and Craig to be Motorhead.
But I think that the spat was a publicity shot. It was Eastenders..With Pink Floyd it was serious.
Just to add to the offtopic; in some cases it was similar indeed, Waters got rid of Wright or Wright quit himself (no one knows for sure, similar to Marx), Mason and Gilmour somehow stayed because it was too convenient also their lifework to just quit it easily.
Maybe they thaught also things would settle again (all very familiar things). Besides there was obviously a big cow to milk.
But Waters was already too impossible to work with (see The Final Cut credits: written by Waters, performed by Pink Floyd).
So a new theory, Sisters were inspired by Pink Floyd;-)
Posted: 12 Jul 2019, 07:49
by An
Swinnow wrote:The Final Cut is actually one of my favourite Floyd albums, nothing is wasted on it, no self indulgence and no filler. Downside is the prevailing mood around the recording sped up the breakup, just like......
Ah, I belong to these people which find TFC not Pink Floyd anymore, just an obscure soloalbum and not a very good one also. They were amazing from 1967 to 1977 (especially the space trips), the wall also being an interesting album. The rest are soloalbums with some good tunes.
Posted: 12 Jul 2019, 19:22
by Elfink
Oh I'm all for the Final Cut and for me it's totally a Pink Floyd record the way that fat Vegas Elvis was still Elvis. It wasn't the Hound dogging boy, more of a Les Dawson come Supernova thing, bit of a car crash but still Elvis.
Final Cut was The Pink Floyd dead man walking. The stuff after was like Elvis' shirt making a record and calling itself Elvis Presley. (Edit...doesn't this thing belong in that other thread about bands not being the right band name anymore)
Posted: 13 Jul 2019, 08:48
by An
Elfink wrote:Oh I'm all for the Final Cut and for me it's totally a Pink Floyd record the way that fat Vegas Elvis was still Elvis. It wasn't the Hound dogging boy, more of a Les Dawson come Supernova thing, bit of a car crash but still Elvis.
Final Cut was The Pink Floyd dead man walking. The stuff after was like Elvis' shirt making a record and calling itself Elvis Presley. (Edit...doesn't this thing belong in that other thread about bands not being the right band name anymore)
Well sure, The Final Cut has some good tunes and a relevant lyricbackground with Gilmour still singing and playing guitar, Mason on drums, good production all in all but there were more like guests than full members anymore. So in a way it was obviously Pink Floyd´s Final Cut but there wasn´t much to cut anymore.
Posted: 13 Jul 2019, 20:00
by Swinnow
I think looking at the Final Cut from 2019 is obviously flavoured with 20/20 hindsight. To me it has Gilmour's beautiful guitars and Waters' ranting against the awfulness of war, so it's a full blown Floyd album. Also, being a single album, it suffers none of the bits that make you go yawn, like in The Wall.
Anyway, back to Wayne's beautiful guitaring.......
Posted: 14 Jul 2019, 08:14
by An
Swinnow wrote:I think looking at the Final Cut from 2019 is obviously flavoured with 20/20 hindsight. To me it has Gilmour's beautiful guitars and Waters' ranting against the awfulness of war, so it's a full blown Floyd album. Also, being a single album, it suffers none of the bits that make you go yawn, like in The Wall.
Anyway, back to Wayne's beautiful guitaring.......
That´s the kind of discussion I really like, yeah, not hostile on personal basis, not perfectly political correct, just each one´s rightful opinion with different angles of views.
Allright back to the Wayne topic (so not that guitarist anymore)....
Posted: 15 Jul 2019, 09:47
by markfiend
Wayne's book?
I finished it at the weekend. Funnily enough the parts about his time in The Sisters is almost the least interesting bit; I don't think there's much in there that wasn't widely known (or at least suspected) among the fan-base.
Having said that, it's a bit of an eye-opener to read just how much the band were on the verge of disintegration even when Wayne joined. I think he's right that his arrival probably postponed the break-up of the band rather than hastening it.
His assertion (paraphrase) "I only ever met Andrew Eldritch, I never met Andy Taylor" I thought a little bit sad TBH. It makes you wonder if Andy Taylor is even still there, buried under decades of Eldritch?
Posted: 15 Jul 2019, 12:26
by Being645
markfiend wrote:Wayne's book?
[...]
His assertion (paraphrase) "I only ever met Andrew Eldritch, I never met Andy Taylor" I thought a little bit sad TBH. It makes you wonder if Andy Taylor is even still there, buried under decades of Eldritch?
....
... you make me wonder if reading (books) can have the effect of a temporary loss of reality ...
... *only a slight reminder, no insult intended!!! ...
Posted: 15 Jul 2019, 12:47
by eastmidswhizzkid
markfiend wrote:
His assertion (paraphrase) "I only ever met Andrew Eldritch, I never met Andy Taylor" I thought a little bit sad TBH. It makes you wonder if Andy Taylor is even still there, buried under decades of Eldritch?
i'm sure Eldritch as opposed to Taylor is no different from
markfiend as opposed to
mark ************ or
eastmidswhizzkid as opposed to
Lee ******, except in Andrews case magnified through the part of his equation that is A Rock Star. we all have multi-facetted personalities some of which are slightly contrived (either as a front or as a defense or simply because we like them) from which we select certain faces for certain occasions/ situations/audiences as suits our needs. to say that these personality add-ons are somehow not the real us is a bit insulting. especially coming from someone whose out-there self public persona was self-confessedly created through his use of recreational drugs. i'm not who i am cuz i take drugs, i take drugs cuz of the person i am. andrew tayllor is andrew eldritch -the two are one (IMHO)
Posted: 15 Jul 2019, 13:14
by Pista
Posted: 15 Jul 2019, 13:18
by eastmidswhizzkid
Nosferatu has really let himself go....so has Paul King
Posted: 15 Jul 2019, 13:43
by Pista
Posted: 15 Jul 2019, 15:00
by Being645
...
... reality is a wonderful thing to play with ...
...
