Page 5 of 5
Posted: 22 Jun 2005, 12:16
by Obviousman
Well, as I'm completely back now, lets get the word count going again
dead stars wrote:Well, Durão Darroso is also Portuguese. I know exactly where he is coming from.
Actually, he quit being a Prime-Minister here to go to Brussels and was widely criticed for that but I agree he simply had to go. Europe is more important.
(That's right. Portuguese are not patriots. Understand that.)
So where exactly did he come from, is he actually any good?
Francis wrote:Anyways, yes the House of Lords still exists, though its makeup can be influenced by the government of the day creating its own life peers. My understanding is that their role is as a 'reality check'
to the elected House of Commons, the idea being that they're not just going to curry favour with public opinion becasue they don't need to get re-elected in four years time. They make ammendments to Bills proposed in the Commons and can stall legislation for upto three readings in each House. But at the end of the day, even if they reject a Bill at the third reading the Government can invoke the Parliament Act and over-ride their opinion. Due to various behind-the-scenes machinations, this happens rarely, but did so recently over the infamous fox-hunting debate.
I guess when talking about length of democracy in Europe/ US, we should compare like with like and take it from universal suffrage, i.e. men and women over a certain age (18 in the UK) having the right to vote in free and fair elections. Which dates back to the early 1900s here. I can't remember exactly when but I do remember
Emily Pankhurst was instrumental in gaining women's right to vote.
In Belgium there's the Senate, which seems to have more or less the same role as your House of the Lords, but some politicians want to go to a single chamber parliament, which wouldn't make much of a difference, since the Senate only comes into the game when they want to slow down, or something like that, so, wouldn't mind if they'd take it down...
Thanks for the link on Sufragettes, had a quick read through it, and seems interesting and very educative stuff on this matter
Don't know how women got to vote in Belgium, but IIRC, Soldiers' widows were allowed to go to voting before the other women, and I think it has been much more of a slow evolution over here...
Posted: 22 Jun 2005, 13:38
by andymackem
Eva wrote:Francis wrote:I guess when talking about length of democracy in Europe/ US, we should compare like with like and take it from universal suffrage, i.e. men and women over a certain age (18 in the UK) having the right to vote in free and fair elections. Which dates back to the early 1900s here.
I'll get back later when I have more time, with Francis' definition Switzerland has only become a democracy in 1971, because that's when women were given the right to vote too
- against their will!
Enforced democracy? What a splendid idea.
I'm very impressed.
On a wider note, if a hypothetical nation voted away its democratic rights in a referendum what would be the correct response from the government? Autocracy, or defying the popular will?
Posted: 22 Jun 2005, 14:29
by Obviousman
andymackem wrote:Enforced democracy? What a splendid idea.
I'm very impressed.
On a wider note, if a hypothetical nation voted away its democratic rights in a referendum what would be the correct response from the government? Autocracy, or defying the popular will?
Enforced 'democracy'? Well, they're trying to do that in a country which has a name starting with an 'I' and ending in 'rak', question is however, how democratic is that democracy they try to enforce overthere... Doesn't that have to do with 'enlightened despotism', or whatever it is called like in English
Didn't nazi Germany and fascist Italy more or less vote their democracy away? IMHO a good leader would never do such a thing, if he'd feel like becoming a dictator, why bother with giving them people a vote in it
Personally I'd go for some sort of non-democratical state, until the situation would have calmed down, or something... Problem is, as stated before, when you ask the people for something like that, you do not care for them...
Posted: 22 Jun 2005, 14:31
by markfiend
andymackem wrote:On a wider note, if a hypothetical nation voted away its democratic rights in a referendum what would be the correct response from the government? Autocracy, or defying the popular will?
Hasn't that already happened in the USA?
Posted: 23 Jun 2005, 00:13
by Francis
We expect much more of you Mr Fiend.
Posted: 23 Jun 2005, 09:32
by markfiend
Francis wrote:We expect much more of you Mr Fiend.
Fair enough.
Cheap shot, I'll admit
Posted: 11 Jul 2005, 02:20
by dead stars
Obviousman wrote:Well, as I'm completely back now, lets get the word count going again
dead stars wrote:Well, Durão Darroso is also Portuguese. I know exactly where he is coming from.
Actually, he quit being a Prime-Minister here to go to Brussels and was widely criticed for that but I agree he simply had to go. Europe is more important.
(That's right. Portuguese are not patriots. Understand that.)
So where exactly did he come from, is he actually any good?
Sorry for being away so long.
Durão is very dedicated to the Euro-cause. That is supposed to be good when you are the president (how do you call it) of the European Commission (or how do you call it).