Heartland

Prescott wrote:No words were put in your mouth. I merely expressed my disdain for your lack of an argument.

Every single point you tried to make had already been addressed in this thread, either by myself or someone else. If you can't be bothered to enter into a discourse that is even vaguely reminiscent of a manner that shows you've taken the time to read what we have already collectively said, then why should I or anyone else take your rant about some out-dated philosophy of selling records?

It's certainly a sign of the times. Baby-boomers and what not who continue to cling to the old paradigms and think that the rest of us have moved on are wrong.

As I've mentioned before, who says you or Von or anyone else need spend inordinate amounts of money on some lavish production for a record? Obviously anything recorded would be better than those live recordings "available on YouTube in varying quality". It wouldn't really matter if you or I or Eldritch used Reason or ProTools or Logic and a few interns or if freaking Jim Steinman and Quincy Jones themselves produced and engineered it with Flood sitting there in the background sipping coffee and making strange noises.

You and Andrew are both so close-minded about how to make a record it's not even funny. With this mind-set it's a wonder the early singles were ever recorded.

I hope that clears things up.

Ahráyeph wrote:

Dan wrote:

Ahráyeph wrote:Today this is absolutely not the case and downloading is killing music.

Well to be fair it isn't.

To be fair, it is. Yes, I agree : there has never been more music out there than nowadays. And how much of that is actually new? And how much of that new music is actually quality (besides my own band and FGG, of course )?

Ahráyeph wrote:




Spoken like a devoted follower of Anders Behring Breivik. Will you too appear on my doorstep to shoot me because I happen to disagree with you? Or will you just continue to attempt to belittle me and anyone...

...I'll go play with the adults on this board now...

Prescott wrote:

Ahráyeph wrote:

Dan wrote: Well to be fair it isn't.

To be fair, it is. Yes, I agree : there has never been more music out there than nowadays. And how much of that is actually new? And how much of that new music is actually quality (besides my own band and FGG, of course )?

You probably didn't read my whole - I admit : elaborate - post or misunderstood it. It's not about the abundance of music, it is about musicians being able to be self sufficient enough to keep doing what they love and do best. The oversupply of mid - to low quality bands out there plus the fact that everyone downloads the music for free without consideration of the time and money that went into it (regardless of what anyone says, recording music on even a semi professional level still costs a small-to-sizable bundle of dough and a lot of hours of writing, recording and production), has made it that much harder for musicians and bands to stand out from the crowd, as they're drowning in an overload of noise. Having everything at your fingertips isn't necessarily a good thing, because a lot gets heard, but not a lot gets listened to intently. Which nowadays makes music a disposable commodity. I'm sure dear auld James will agree with me at least on this. So in that light, does it pay to release an album? No, it doesn't. Downloading IS killing music. Or, at least, the opportunity for musicians to keep making it.

I think if a band wants to release a new album that they don't want people copying they could include something exclusive with the album. A t-shirt perhaps, or some other nice artifact that you can't copy. Sure, people will still copy the music, that's inevitable, but it'll sell more than a bogstandard album.

In theory, you're right. But doing that costs an even bigger bundle of money, which most people or bands just couldn't front on their own. It would take... a record company. Loving the irony yet? I certainly am.

Fun fact : when my debut, 'Marooned On Samsara' was released, it didn't take long for the people who liked the music to start asking when the next album would be released. Three years and a handful of months have gone by since, and I'm on the verge of properly recording all the demos I've selected for this 'next album'. However, seeing the meager result of the album sales (in large part because it was illegally downloaded more than it was bought, but also through lack of promotion and opportunities to play live due to the oversaturation of the live market I've referred to in my original post), which generated ZERO income for me, but A WHOLE LOT OF DEBT which I'm still paying off instead, often makes me wonder if it's all still worthwile.

Unfortunately, I'm cursed with the gift of musicianship and I don't fit in anywhere else, so I have no other alternative than to keep going. But I did have to take on other jobs to recoup some of the losses I've made, which accounts in large part for this nearly four year delay. Non- musicians and even people who dearly love music by and large very rarely seem to take into consideration the amount of time and effort it takes to write a decent song, record it decently and produce it decently. In that sense, illegal downloading is like the looting in London and the other cities in the U.K. : we do it because we can, and we blatantly ignore the fact that we're hurting the wrong people. Harsh, perhaps, but true nonetheless.

You might condemn Von for not releasing anything new, but so far, all the arguments I've read against his stance as given in the NZ radio interview haven't convinced me at all. Releasing a new record is bad business, the songs can indeed be found in varying quality on Youtube for you to listen to and watch, which you shouldn't complain about if you're all about that pro free music stance anyway, so why then even harp about the fact there isn't something physical for you to have and hold?

I would love for the world to be a different place and releasing albums would still be a viable option. I mean, why else would I be so mad as to even seriously entertain the idea of releasing a new album next year? I love having a physical product of my favourite musicians' efforts, and for me it represents physical proof of my own, the end result of a long and intense creative process. But only if in that different world I spoke of Von still wouldn't release an album, this thread would have more validity. But here and now, to my mind, it hasn't. Whatever his other reasons may be and no matter whether they're justifiable or not, just the illegal downloading stance alone outweighs every other argument...

*Not just taping either. It's been going on since the advent of recording. I've got a recording of Harry Roy - She Had To Go And Lose It At The Astor (1939), copied by someone playing the 78 on a gramophone and recording it with a disc cutter via a microphone held next to it in about 1950. There's even recordings where someone's copied a wax cylinder off another wax cylinder by putting 2 machines together.

What you're referring to, is called 'bootlegging' and it's a whole different can-of what-Blaast!-posted-a-picture-of...

By focusing on only one issue, the illegal download issue and not addressing any of the points either myself or anyone else that agrees, you have created an ad hoc argument of no merit. Merely saying our arguments are "unconvincing" is lame and since that's basically another way of saying, "whatever dude" I'll return the favor.


Whatever dude.

Besides, I don't think this thread was meant to convince YOU of anything.

H. Blackrose wrote:There are plenty of arguments about how Von could make a record and make it pay. No-one has made any arguments about why he should. For the sake of his own career? Clearly he doesn't care about that, and he's happy with what the Sisters have. So... because you think he owes you something?

Why have I got to be so undemanding? Because it's better for my mental health.

H. Blackrose wrote:Arguments of the form "because it would make me feel better if he did" don't count.

Prescott wrote:
There you have it. My main reasons for why Andrew Eldritch should release new Sisters recordings of the aforementioned unreleased songs. Notice I did not mention money or success in the conventional out-dated sense of the word.

il duce wrote:There are a couple of things I do not get though.

1. Almost all musiciand are agree. You do not make any money on albums, and you never have. You release albums to get people to go to your shows and buy merchandise, which is what you make money from.

As far as I can tell Sisters are playing smaller venues for everytime I see them.

2. Von claims that he do not need to make albums since Sisters is one of the most bootlegged bands out there.

What is so damn unfair about that is that we all know that Von can spend 3 bloody months to get a guitar to sound right, but we have to do with crappy-ass sounding bootlegs.

Either he cares about the sound or he does not. That statement tells me he does not care.

IF he was proud of his material and cared about his fans he would be interested in us being able to hear them sounding the best they possible can.

This he does not care about.

SO, he is not that proud or care about his new material.

My two cents.

Because Von is waiting for a record deal, he does not like where the record buisness is right now, bla bla is just s**t. His creativity has burned out, he knows it. I seriously do not think he can make a new album anymore, because it is not in him anymore. He could have 15-20 years ago, but that was then, now is now.

Prescott wrote:Yeah, it's like someone's Stairway To Heaven crumbled right beneath their feet at freefall. Something about H. Fielding-Hall and The Field of Honour. Maybe something he dialed? Not too sure though, it's as if he was told to stop or something? I guess The Song Remains The Same.

Bartek wrote:It just poped into my head; i remeber that A.E. in one interview said that problem with albums is that you can capture only one emotion, express it in only one way, while gigs allows to present wider range/scope of emotions.
And who said that every single concert should be released - btw, we are talking about that like it can happens in next 3 weeks. It would take too much effort to release it in that way compared to estimated incomes.

James Blast wrote:***PSYCHOBABBLE ALERT***

Prescott wrote:Yeah, it's like someone's Stairway To Heaven crumbled right beneath their feet at freefall. Something about H. Fielding-Hall and The Field of Honour. Maybe something he dialed? Not too sure though, it's as if he was told to stop or something? I guess The Song Remains The Same.

Downloading IS killing music. Or, at least, the opportunity for musicians to keep making it.