Posted: 08 Aug 2006, 23:22
I allas thought that was a pic of Mr. E falling over, on stage.Maisey wrote:nner, gate: Von Silletted in th smoke
Heartland
The Sisters of Mercy Forum
https://myheartland.co.uk/
First And Last And Always Original Mixes
Page 6 of 9
Posted: 09 Aug 2006, 11:52
it is a very strange picture. it looks like he's holding bagpipes or something 
Posted: 10 Aug 2006, 23:33
I looked futher into this (asked a chap at another record shop). i desribed my vinyl and he said its a 60 quid job. *is pleased*
Just bought the adrenachrome 7'' off ebay. Sorry, I meant Anaconda.
Anaconda and Alice were two of the highlights of the astoria show. They were perfectly done.
Just bought the adrenachrome 7'' off ebay. Sorry, I meant Anaconda.
Anaconda and Alice were two of the highlights of the astoria show. They were perfectly done.
Posted: 10 Aug 2006, 23:41
Neato!Maisey wrote:I looked futher into this (asked a chap at another record shop). i desribed my vinyl and he said its a 60 quid job. *is pleased*
Posted: 11 Aug 2006, 00:21
cheers!
Thats my looking at copy. Also if I ever get to meet, Von, Marx, Hussey and Adems I'l have it with me to sign. Do you think hussey would sign a sisters vinyl? Would Von sign something already marked by hussey?
Thats my looking at copy. Also if I ever get to meet, Von, Marx, Hussey and Adems I'l have it with me to sign. Do you think hussey would sign a sisters vinyl? Would Von sign something already marked by hussey?
Posted: 11 Aug 2006, 00:31
60 quid? For FALAA? Nah..
Mine's not got a Warner stamp, and no UK on the ROG (but a hand-cut X on both sides). Aside from that, it's like yours.
Eh, apparently I paid £4.
Mine's not got a Warner stamp, and no UK on the ROG (but a hand-cut X on both sides). Aside from that, it's like yours.
Eh, apparently I paid £4.
Posted: 11 Aug 2006, 14:58
I paid 5, but I think its been criminaly undervalued.
The reissue non gate is worth £12.50
The reissue non gate is worth £12.50
Posted: 11 Aug 2006, 17:32
$25 for a vinyl of FALAA? wha?Maisey wrote:I paid 5, but I think its been criminaly undervalued.
The reissue non gate is worth £12.50
Posted: 11 Aug 2006, 19:52
Does the non-gate contain the same mixes as the gate?
Posted: 11 Aug 2006, 20:09
I think the vinyls contain the same mixes.
BTW, I'm doing a needle-drop capture of my FALAA US promo, since it was played far less than my German gatefold pressing.
BTW, I'm doing a needle-drop capture of my FALAA US promo, since it was played far less than my German gatefold pressing.
Re: First And Last And Always Original Mixes
Posted: 16 Aug 2006, 19:04
you're a lucky man, you know.mh wrote:I'm gonna resurrect this cos it's been a particular bugbear of mine for the last 15 or so years.
The other day I got me a replacement for my old knackered vinyl of the FALAA original 1985 mixes, and on listening to these songs as they were originally intended to be heard for the first time in ages, I was struck by how bloody good the album is. It's crisper, punchier and more direct than the bloated droney murky wash that we've all been treated to with the Japanese remixes on the so-called "digitally remastered" version. FALAA itself is a beat-driven dance track with one of the great post-Floorshow Doktor overloads, Black Planet can rip your head off at 50 paces, A Rock And A Hard Place is like a sonic mugging, nearly every song has a different arrangement, whether subtle or glaring.
In short, the version we currently have merely serves to perpetuate the myth that the LP is badly produced - it's not. I don't buy the story that the original masters were "lost" - NTTC somehow managed to make it onto ASCOOB in it's original form, so where are the rest of them? Do people just not want to admit that someone cocked up with the reissue?
you don't even imagine how i want to listen to the sisters vinyl... oooooh...
Posted: 17 Aug 2006, 00:11
Yes they do, so does the cassette. The only one with different mixes is the 1992 CD (can't comment on the Jap imports nor the 1988 CD as I don't own them).davedecay wrote:I think the vinyls contain the same mixes.
The reason for the differnt mixes on the '92 CD is because Waner Bros. "lost" the original masters of the vinyls. IIRC that was what Von said in an issue of UTR when asked about it.
As for "digital remastering", all that entails is a higher compression ratio to make the songs louder. The downside is that they lose all, or most of, their dynamic range in the process.
There's a good explaination of what I mean here about using too much compression:
http://georgegraham.com/compress.html
And this one has some very nice waveform diagrams to illustrate things bettter:
http://www.mindspring.com/~mrichter/dyn ... namics.htm
Sorry if I strayed a bit off topic there.
Posted: 17 Aug 2006, 09:53
Most useful links.
I avoid compression whenever possible, no worries there.
I avoid compression whenever possible, no worries there.
Posted: 17 Aug 2006, 10:51
Interesting links Syberberg. I never even considered that someone would deliberately compress music on CD. That's fu'cked up.
About the only audio work I do is transferring my old vinyl to CD, but whenever I do it, I always check the waveform afterwards. If I find any clipping, then the recording goes in the bin. (Well, apart from pops from scratches.) Ideally, I like the peaks to be, like the Bryan Adams example in the link, 2-3 dB below the "theoretical maximum" 100%. If it's a bit quieter than that I'll digitally amplify the whole sound file, but I take great care never to introduce any digital clipping.
About the only audio work I do is transferring my old vinyl to CD, but whenever I do it, I always check the waveform afterwards. If I find any clipping, then the recording goes in the bin. (Well, apart from pops from scratches.) Ideally, I like the peaks to be, like the Bryan Adams example in the link, 2-3 dB below the "theoretical maximum" 100%. If it's a bit quieter than that I'll digitally amplify the whole sound file, but I take great care never to introduce any digital clipping.
Posted: 17 Aug 2006, 12:25
I have both CDs, the original is a lot better - sadly no amount of production or remastering is going to do much to improve some of the vocals on that album which is (what I think!) lets it down a little..
Posted: 17 Aug 2006, 12:59
Markfiend and Dark,
No worries guys, any time.
No worries guys, any time.
I only ever use a little to boost the vocals or give the kick a bit more punch, but nothing excessive. You can do a lot with volume envelopes in a DAW to lower the peaks back below 0dB without destroying the dynamics.I avoid compression whenever possible, no worries there.
That's record company execs for you telling the mastering engineer how to do his job. LOUDNESS IS BETTER. Yeah, right. No idea about how audio actually works and how the loudness effects the listener. I mean, if you want to listen to something loud, presumably that's why audio playback devices have something called a "volume control" incorporated into them. But that's a rant for another day and another thread.Interesting links Syberberg. I never even considered that someone would deliberately compress music on CD. That's fu'cked up.
Posted: 17 Aug 2006, 13:20
I normally compress a little for walkman listening. RMS is the key figure here, which relates to the average "loudness" of a track, and I find that on a walkman having an RMS of about 15% to 20% is the ideal target.
No clipping though - that is evil incarnate. I use a special (home made) tool that handles the compression properly and in a non-destructive manner.
No clipping though - that is evil incarnate. I use a special (home made) tool that handles the compression properly and in a non-destructive manner.
Posted: 17 Aug 2006, 14:00
I did, at one point, actually turn up my synth so loud that it clipped, because the sound it then spat out was fairly interesting.
But I've grown out of that now
But I've grown out of that now
Posted: 17 Aug 2006, 14:48
Dragging myself back on topic...
I decided to check my CD of F&L&A...it's the '88 CD not the '92 one! So none of that nasty, evil, tinitus-inducing "remastering".
One thing I still haven't done yet is to play both the vinyl and the CD track-by-track and back-to-back, to see which mixes I prefer...time to annoy - sorry, educate - the neighbours. Again.
I decided to check my CD of F&L&A...it's the '88 CD not the '92 one! So none of that nasty, evil, tinitus-inducing "remastering".
One thing I still haven't done yet is to play both the vinyl and the CD track-by-track and back-to-back, to see which mixes I prefer...time to annoy - sorry, educate - the neighbours. Again.
Posted: 17 Aug 2006, 21:49
That was really interesting. And a little bit useful for one doing electronics at A level, working on audio electronics...
cheers
Posted: 02 Sep 2006, 12:55
Ehm. I have the equipment, time, material and - hrm - the skill to do a good vinyl transfer.
Send me a photograph of yourself holding up your vinyl copy of FALAA and I'll let you have a copy as soon as I'm done. Ladies first.
I'll probably be mp3s. Not flac. Any complaints?
Edit: I wish I had a copy of the 1988 CD, but I don't. :-/
Send me a photograph of yourself holding up your vinyl copy of FALAA and I'll let you have a copy as soon as I'm done. Ladies first.
I'll probably be mp3s. Not flac. Any complaints?
Edit: I wish I had a copy of the 1988 CD, but I don't. :-/
Posted: 03 Nov 2006, 23:20
*bump* And a new arrival on CD for me *
This one is gonna run and run ...maybe.
I'm ignoring track times (they get changed depending on which media player I use) and as I'm not an audiophile, but with vinyl running to a max 25mins each side (unless you're Jimmy Page), it seems logical that maybe the fade ins/fade outs, intros/outros on the CD version may be slightly longer than the original vinyl versions and the songs adapted slighty as they have 80mins to play with and no time constraints.
First thoughts are that guitars seem crisper. The Doktor's clearer but just as heavy. FALAA is the crashing, rocking juggernaut it always was. Possession is listenable. Which is a first for me.
FALAA - Elektra/Asylum Records USA - 60405-2 - Produced/Copyright 1985
I can't compare to the vinyl mixs for another 24hrs but just listening and interchanging this version with the 88 WEA shows up noticable differences.
Anyone else who's the owner of both care to comment?
This one is gonna run and run ...maybe.
I'm ignoring track times (they get changed depending on which media player I use) and as I'm not an audiophile, but with vinyl running to a max 25mins each side (unless you're Jimmy Page), it seems logical that maybe the fade ins/fade outs, intros/outros on the CD version may be slightly longer than the original vinyl versions and the songs adapted slighty as they have 80mins to play with and no time constraints.
First thoughts are that guitars seem crisper. The Doktor's clearer but just as heavy. FALAA is the crashing, rocking juggernaut it always was. Possession is listenable. Which is a first for me.
FALAA - Elektra/Asylum Records USA - 60405-2 - Produced/Copyright 1985
I can't compare to the vinyl mixs for another 24hrs but just listening and interchanging this version with the 88 WEA shows up noticable differences.
Anyone else who's the owner of both care to comment?
Posted: 04 Nov 2006, 02:23
Yup, very noticeable differences.
I remember replacing my old 85 mixes cassette with a remixed copy, and was utterly gutted when I heard it first. This was before the 92 "remaster" fiasco, too.
Anyway, isn't it about time this thread was binned? There are plenty of other more appropriate places to discuss the different mixes now, and it's probably best to restrict any discussion to there so as not to fragment things too much.
Just a thought...
I remember replacing my old 85 mixes cassette with a remixed copy, and was utterly gutted when I heard it first. This was before the 92 "remaster" fiasco, too.
Anyway, isn't it about time this thread was binned? There are plenty of other more appropriate places to discuss the different mixes now, and it's probably best to restrict any discussion to there so as not to fragment things too much.
Just a thought...
Posted: 04 Nov 2006, 11:10
Well said that man/ My only comment here is that I did the same as yourself, replaced the cassette with CD back in '88 and didn't like things like the intro of the title track.mh wrote:Yup, very noticeable differences.
I remember replacing my old 85 mixes cassette with a remixed copy, and was utterly gutted when I heard it first. This was before the 92 "remaster" fiasco, too.
Anyway, isn't it about time this thread was binned? There are plenty of other more appropriate places to discuss the different mixes now, and it's probably best to restrict any discussion to there so as not to fragment things too much.
Just a thought...
Posted: 04 Nov 2006, 11:24
john, i thought you were getting the long box? i have that cat no on a jewel case CD?Johnny Rev 7.0 wrote:*bump* And a new arrival on CD for me *
FALAA - Elektra/Asylum Records USA - 60405-2 - Produced/Copyright 1985
Anyone else who's the owner of both care to comment?