Heartland

Let me know when that Peter Murphy starts talking English

Obviousman wrote:

canon docre wrote:BUT: To think they could sell 500.000 to 1 Mio is so far off the mark. Really. No one ships these amounts nowadays.*

What's a more realistic estimate do you think (in order not to give you a headache perhaps in a) the case it's a best-seller (in its sort) b) only does so-so c) doesn't do a lot at all?)

I really can't guess any numbers. It depends on so many determining factors... For one, where is the break even? If the production of a record doesnt cost so much, the break even is reached very quickly and therefore an album is considered a success even if it sells just a few thousands. Marketing on the other hand would raise the costs immensely. But somehow you need to let the people know the record is out. Not just the fans but every single person that could be a potential buyer. Good songs are a plus too, a marketable (meaning radio-compatible) single extremely important..... and so on and so on. I could go on for hours about this boring subject, but I just got headache.

canon docre wrote:

Obviousman wrote:

canon docre wrote:BUT: To think they could sell 500.000 to 1 Mio is so far off the mark. Really. No one ships these amounts nowadays.*

What's a more realistic estimate do you think (in order not to give you a headache perhaps in a) the case it's a best-seller (in its sort) b) only does so-so c) doesn't do a lot at all?)

I really can't guess any numbers. It depends on so many determining factors... For one, where is the break even? If the production of a record doesnt cost so much, the break even is reached very quickly and therefore an album is considered a success even if it sells just a few thousands. Marketing on the other hand would raise the costs immensely. But somehow you need to let the people know the record is out. Not just the fans but every single person that could be a potential buyer. Good songs are a plus too, a marketable (meaning radio-compatible) single extremely important..... and so on and so on. I could go on for hours about this boring subject, but I just got headache.

canon docre wrote:I really can't guess any numbers. It depends on so many determining factors... For one, where is the break even? If the production of a record doesnt cost so much, the break even is reached very quickly and therefore an album is considered a success even if it sells just a few thousands. Marketing on the other hand would raise the costs immensely. But somehow you need to let the people know the record is out. Not just the fans but every single person that could be a potential buyer. Good songs are a plus too, a marketable (meaning radio-compatible) single extremely important..... and so on and so on. I could go on for hours about this boring subject, but I just got headache.

Very true, sorry for the headache though

Wear those mirrored shades at you Londres interview Jess and quote yer last post.

Quids in!

canon docre wrote:Aaaaahhhhh, Syberberg, you do my head in. I think our discussion is moving in a circle.

As I said before:

canon docre wrote:Surely the fans would buy whatever comes out, but there’re not 500.000 to 1 Mio of them out there

And this statement was surely not made based on my experiencs with The m*****n and my lack of enthusiasm about their new product. I'm fully aware that a TSOM release would have more impact on the world and there are still a lot of fans out there who doesnt see TSOM merely as a nostalgia act. (myself included )

BUT: To think they could sell 500.000 to 1 Mio is so far off the mark. Really. No one ships these amounts nowadays.*




*If that would be the case, the record industry executives would hunt him down with bloodhounds and happily pour (his allegedly postulated) 3 Mio$ over him.

Of course it's moving in a circle, neither of us is prepared to back down and untill such time as The Sisters actually release anything, all we've got is specualtion.

As for "no one ships these amounts nowadays." You're wrong on that score NIN have sold a total of 10.5 MILLION albums. UK retailers sold 163.4 million albums in 2004 (the most current yearly figures from the BPI) other wise I have the Q3 figures for artist album sales in the UK which are 26,398,000, a rise of 8.4% on like-for-like sales from the same period in 2004. Might help if you actually backed up your statements with facts and figures.

I still maintain that a new Sisters album could deffinately hit the Gold mark within 2 or 3 years of worldwide sales. Now then, here's a quote from The Sisters own website (added emphasis mine):

"NEWSFLASH: We've disabled videoclip download links because millions of people were trying all at once to download 100Mb and our server became unacceptably slow: you couldn't get the files and we couldn't get our mail."

Even if you take that as possible exaggeration and remove the plural, that's 1 million, which if it were an album would be....a Platinum record. Go figure.

As for your last point about the majors hunting him down with bloodhounds, the majors don't believe The Sisters could sell that well, nor do they have any idea how to properly market The Sisters (the problem which caused the split with east/west in the first place) and they're far too interested in "The Next Big Thing" to worry about "Yesterday's Men". Amongst a few other reasons already cited as to why they won't cough up the £3mil he's allegedly asking for in advances.

And yes, I do give people headaches. It's why I exist.

Hmm, record companies, like every fcuker else these days, wants bankable product. That excludes the 'next big thing', as they aren't prepared to potentially waste moolah looking for it, so they look 'backwards' at what they know will sell. Unfortunately this normally means another compilation of Bowie, Eagles, REM, whoever stuff (much like hollywood and its never-ending story of churning out cack remakes of the classics). What is needed is for one of these bozo's to realise that The Sisters new stuff can successfully be marketed to the 'million'-odd fanbase AND to the curious housewives who'll dig Susanne if they hear it. Throw in the general alt-crowd with Crash & Burn as lead single and everyone wins.

Sounds easy dunnit. sigh.

Syberberg wrote: As for "no one ships these amounts nowadays." You're wrong on that score NIN have sold a total of 10.5 MILLION albums. UK retailers sold 163.4 million albums in 2004 (the most current yearly figures from the BPI) other wise I have the Q3 figures for artist album sales in the UK which are 26,398,000, a rise of 8.4% on like-for-like sales from the same period in 2004. Might help if you actually backed up your statements with facts and figures.

What? It'd surprise me if NIN did 163,4 in the UK. How many people are living on your island? Did you bastards all bought 3 to 4 copies? Well NIN did just about 50.000 to 60.000 with each of their previous records in Germany. Which still makes them quite a big player for that kind of music.

Syberberg wrote:I still maintain that a new Sisters album could deffinately hit the Gold mark within 2 or 3 years of worldwide sales.

Gold records are measured per territory, not worldwide. In Germany f.ex 100.000 shipped units get you a Gold Record, 200.000 Platinum. UK: Gold: 100.000. Platinum: 300.000. USA Gold: 500.000. Platinum: 1Mio.

Syberberg wrote:Now then, here's a quote from The Sisters own website (added emphasis mine):
NEWSFLASH: We've disabled videoclip download links because millions of people were trying all at once to download 100Mb and our server became unacceptably slow: you couldn't get the files and we couldn't get our mail."

Even if you take that as possible exaggeration and remove the plural, that's 1 million, which if it were an album would be....a Platinum record. Go figure.

How you can compare a free download to a Sales-CD is beyond me.

Syberberg wrote: As for your last point about the majors hunting him down with bloodhounds, the majors don't believe The Sisters could sell that well, nor do they have any idea how to properly market The Sisters (the problem which caused the split with east/west in the first place) and they're far too interested in "The Next Big Thing" to worry about "Yesterday's Men". Amongst a few other reasons already cited as to why they won't cough up the £3mil he's allegedly asking for in advances.

Well, thanks for emphasizing my point.

canon docre wrote:What? It'd surprise me if NIN did 163,4 in the UK. How many people are living on your island? Did you bastards all bought 3 to 4 copies? Well NIN did just about 50.000 to 60.000 with each of their previous records in Germany. Which still makes them quite a big player for that kind of music.

Ich offensichtlich bildete diesen freien Raum genug nicht, die Gesamtalbumverkäufe in Großbritannien, für alle Künstler, war 164.4 Million, nicht gerade für NIN.

Gold records are measured per territory, not worldwide. In Germany f.ex 100.000 shipped units get you a Gold Record, 200.000 Platinum. UK: Gold: 100.000. Platinum: 300.000. USA Gold: 500.000. Platinum: 1Mio.

Zutreffend (und you'd've dachte, daß sie die Abbildungen über allen Regionen jetzt standardisiert haben würden, um Durcheinander zu vermeiden), aber Sie kann herausfinden, wieviel verkauft worden ist, indem man alle Abbildungen für alle Gegenden, zum einer Festpunktabbildung für globale totalverkäufe jedes möglichen gegebenen Albums zu gewinnen zusammenzählte. Es gibt jetzt einen IFPI Platin-Europa Preis, der gerade den tut, begonnen in 1996.

How you can compare a free download to a Sales-CD is beyond me.

Es zeigt, daß Ihre Vermutungen der Gesamtanzahlen von Schwesterventilatoren dort falsch sind. Daß Art der Abbildung genau ist, was an für Marketing-Zwecke gewöhntIST. Wenn Sie nicht Sein anfassen können falsch, ist das nicht mein Problem.

Well, thanks for emphasizing my point.

Ich war nicht, ich zeigte, wie weit Unrecht die Industrie ist. Wenn Sie Ihre Meinungen formulieren möchten, die nach einer Industrie gegründet werden, die nicht einen Anhaltspunkt erhalten hat, gehen Sie geradeaus. Sie sind noch (und also Wille sie) falsch, aber das ist nicht mein Problem.

...."Es knallt das Roß, ein donnernd Halt, Oh deutscher Baum im Niederwald!"..
Fud..

If you assume, dear Syberberg, that I understand your German better than your English, you're wrong. But thanks for the effort anyway.

I really like "Schwesterventilatoren" though. Which would be "Sisters ventilators".

canon docre wrote:

If you assume, dear Syberberg, that I understand your German better than your English, you're wrong. But thanks for the effort anyway.

I really like "Schwesterventilatoren" though. Which would be "Sisters ventilators".

It also translates as "fan" and was the only word I could drag up out of my German that came close. I maybe should've chosen "Die Schwestern des Gnade Musikgeliebten", but I was in a bit of a hurry.

Now, why don't you stick to the subject at hand?

You're way off the mark on so many sales figures in your categorical statement that "no one sells those kind of numbers anymore".

Let's take The Kaiser Chiefs as an example, their debut album (released March 2005) has, according to the IFPI, managed to sell a staggering 2 million copies across Europe.

Kindly provide us with your facts and figures to back up your sweeping statements and opinion. Like I said, it's not my problem if your ego can't handle being proven wrong.

Now then, further to your point about different levels of product sales in different territories, here's a link to a nice little pdf that shows what the certification award levels are:

http://www.ifpi.org/site-content/librar ... levels.pdf

<Pre-emptive mod hat> I may be being over-cautious or indeed over-sensitive, but can we stay on the topic at hand and play nicely please?

Thanks. </Pre-emptive mod hat>

markfiend wrote:<Pre-emptive mod hat> I may be being over-cautious or indeed over-sensitive, but can we stay on the topic at hand and play nicely please?

Thanks. </Pre-emptive mod hat>

oh don't worry Mr.Markfiend, I'm not gonna indulge in that subject any further. there's just a clash of opinions. And I personally would love to be proven wrong if the Sisters sell 1Mio with their next output. End of discussion.

@Syberberg: the reason why I didnt reply on the subject after your last post was simply because I didnt understand a word. automatic translation programs aren't the best way to keep up a decent conversation. (a fan is a fan is a fan )


right, I'm off to see Miss von Teese undress in a minute. Nice weekend everybody.

canon docre wrote: right, I'm off to see Miss von Teese undress in a minute. Nice weekend everybody.

Have a nice time. I'm sure you'll do.

canon docre wrote: right, I'm off to see Miss von Teese undress in a minute. Nice weekend everybody.

Bollox and you know it Jess. Miss Von Teese is surely paying to watch you undress.

right, I'm off to see Miss von Teese undress in a minute. Nice weekend everybody.

... and just before you thought this thread couldn't get any better......






@Ravey: oh you sweet flatterer.....

For the benefit (or detriment) fo those checking the site while at work, a space has been added the the link above. You know what to do if you want to view the image.

Petseri wrote:For the benefit (or detriment) fo those checking the site while at work, a space has been added the the link above. You know what to do if you want to view the image.

Thanks!