Heartland

Chairman Bux wrote: I was with you up until the Albini part - that's just unpleasant.

How 'bout Rick Rubin?

il duce wrote:I have given up arguing this. And everyone has come with really interesting and well thoughthrough points. It has been a pleasure. Thank you!

And the same to you, thanks for a nice conversation!

il duce wrote: I love Sisters and I DO NOT want a polished turd of a commercial album. I would absolutely love a dirty, nasty rock'n roll album, and I think this band can do it. And so what If Vons voice is not what it used to be. If they can record and present to me something like the liveshow, I would be more than happy.

I agree 100%!

il duce wrote: Fot godsake, record the album with Steve Albini and I will come in my pants. Nuff said.

Much as I'm a massive Big Black fan, I don't think that kind of aggression would work with the Sisters. But perhaps someone who has produced a doom/death metal album could do something interesting with them.

I'd be ecstatic for Albini to be at the controls, maybe not as much as il duce, but I'm getting on a bit.

After all, the man was behind Seamonsters and he knows that a tuba's E natural is 40 feet long

il duce wrote:I love Sisters and I DO NOT want a polished turd of a commercial album.

Yes, I know what you mean; Vision Thing isn't exactly my favourite album either

I can feel one more long post brewing about this topic..then I think I'll have said my piece Is that ok Yggdrasil? Cool to hear you've runa a label etc - just need to formulate a mail in my mind.

As for Albini - this is his studio: http://www.electrical.com/
Can't see the two of them getting on somehow.... thats just a personal... guess! Albini's music has moved on a bit since Big Black days though. His production work with LIVE drums is one of his many strengths.... So not sure (i.e. I don't know) what he can do with drum machines/sequencers. You go to him to usually capture a live sound. On tape. He's an engineer - not a producer. Other producers? Flood?

Personally I think the more money that has been spent on SOM recordings - the less interested in them I've been. Not a huge fan of the prod work on Vision Thing. Floodland is ok - sounds a little bit dated now... FALLAA still stands up and the EPs 82-84 sounds great....So there
My musical tastes woule prefer something dirty and garagey - not something pompous and fiddled with. Two guitars - LIVE bass and drum (machine...)s. Oh and vocals. No backing singers. No sequenced strings.
Danke.

Smallstone wrote: Personally I think the more money that has been spent on SOM recordings - the less interested in them I've been. Not a huge fan of the prod work on Vision Thing. Floodland is ok - sounds a little bit dated now... FALLAA still stands up and the EPs 82-84 sounds great....So there
My musical tastes woule prefer something dirty and garagey - not something pompous and fiddled with. Two guitars - LIVE bass and drum (machine...)s. Oh and vocals. No backing singers. No sequenced strings.
Danke.

couldn't have put it better myself.

Sounds like all pretty much agree on what we want.
So how do we convince Von that we are right and he is wrong

il duce wrote: Fot godsake, record the album with Steve Albini and I will come in my pants. Nuff said.

Yggdrasil wrote:Much as I'm a massive Big Black fan, I don't think that kind of aggression would work with the Sisters. But perhaps someone who has produced a doom/death metal album could do something interesting with them.

I don't think Albini's agression would be a problem, he's reigned it in for a lot of bands, especially some of the alt. country stuff he's engineered, plus he's familiar with at least the (very) early sound of the Sissies. I believe he was instrumental in getting the US (Braineater) version of Body Electric released, and mentioned the Sisters a lot at the time as a band "making the right kind of noise". Plus I've always had a feel that a couple of Big Black tracks, like Bad Houses have a great sistersy feel. He also knows how to make electronic drums sound perfect, and doesn't try and pretend they're real which is a bonus.

If we're playing fantasy producers though, your right with the doom/death background thing, Justin Broadrick would be perfect, though I'd want him to play most of the guitars himself. Which brings me back to labels, random thought, go for Southern Lord. Hmmmm.

Yggdrasil wrote: Much as I'm a massive Big Black fan, I don't think that kind of aggression would work with the Sisters. But perhaps someone who has produced a doom/death metal album could do something interesting with them.

I don't think Steve's production aesthetic would be appropriate for the current Sisters at all. A metal guy might not be too inappropriate, actually, especially considering how slick and glossy and near electronic sounding the genre's gotten.

Yggdrasil wrote: Much as I'm a massive Big Black fan, I don't think that kind of aggression would work with the Sisters. But perhaps someone who has produced a doom/death metal album could do something interesting with them.

ooh, doom would be lovely.

il duce wrote:Sounds like all pretty much agree on what we want.
So how do we convince Von that we are right and he is wrong

start a petition? I think the arch-miserablist Brown is a fan.

Stock Aitken Waterman?

How about persuading That Guitarist to release an album of covers of unreleased Sisters songs?

That probably has more chance than Eldo issuing anything (except a writ perhaps...).

Smallstone wrote:I can feel one more long post brewing about this topic..then I think I'll have said my piece Is that ok Yggdrasil?

Sure! (I can't think of a way to stop you, anyhow...)

Smallstone wrote: You go to him to usually capture a live sound.

Yep. Which he's really good at. But I have a hard time imagining a Sisters album with the sound of, say, Rapeman.

Smallstone wrote: Personally I think the more money that has been spent on SOM recordings - the less interested in them I've been. Not a huge fan of the prod work on Vision Thing. Floodland is ok - sounds a little bit dated now... FALLAA still stands up and the EPs 82-84 sounds great....So there
My musical tastes woule prefer something dirty and garagey - not something pompous and fiddled with. Two guitars - LIVE bass and drum (machine...)s. Oh and vocals. No backing singers. No sequenced strings.
Danke.

Exactly!

No Jim Steinmans, please. I'd much rather have the sound of the EP:s (even though I like most of Vision Thing as well).

il duce wrote:Sounds like all pretty much agree on what we want.
So how do we convince Von that we are right and he is wrong

Well, I hear there are some facilities at Guantanamo Bay we could use...

Ve vill break him and he vill follow our orders! Commence recording NOW, you British pigdog!

RobF wrote:

il duce wrote: Fot godsake, record the album with Steve Albini and I will come in my pants. Nuff said.

Yggdrasil wrote:Much as I'm a massive Big Black fan, I don't think that kind of aggression would work with the Sisters. But perhaps someone who has produced a doom/death metal album could do something interesting with them.

I don't think Albini's agression would be a problem, he's reigned it in for a lot of bands, especially some of the alt. country stuff he's engineered, plus he's familiar with at least the (very) early sound of the Sissies. I believe he was instrumental in getting the US (Braineater) version of Body Electric released, and mentioned the Sisters a lot at the time as a band "making the right kind of noise". Plus I've always had a feel that a couple of Big Black tracks, like Bad Houses have a great sistersy feel. He also knows how to make electronic drums sound perfect, and doesn't try and pretend they're real which is a bonus.

If we're playing fantasy producers though, your right with the doom/death background thing, Justin Broadrick would be perfect, though I'd want him to play most of the guitars himself. Which brings me back to labels, random thought, go for Southern Lord. Hmmmm.

Good ideas!

And now that I thought it over a bit, I think you're right about Steve Albini being a good choice. It could be really interesting. And you're also right about some of the early Big Black songs having a Sisters-like feel. How about Justin Broadrick as producer and guitar player, and Steve Albini as engineer?

Now that's settled, all we need to is get hold of Eldritch, order him to the hire the guys, write some songs, buy some meth and pizza, and send him off to the studio. Easy!

If we're talking fantasy record summer camp:

Two to three weeks in Electrical Audio - that should do it. Peversely thinking about it they may get on... Perhaps their respective egos would cancel each others out?

The last thing ANYONE wants/needs is a SOM album produced by whover the metal producer wonderkid is this season - someone god awful like Ross Robinson (Korn/Limp B*****/The Cure's tepid 'The Cure' album) or what not.... jesus christ... Terrible terrible....

To this end - and I'm sorry - he'd need to get rid of both of the touring guitarists for these sessions. Hard but fair me. Ge Duane Denison in or - just to kick him up the ass a week with Josh Homme to show him whats what or if you don't want his sound Troy Van Leuwen. Maybe he should chat to Chris Goss.... ex-Masters Of Reality/producer dude.
This is pretty mainstream - and Broderick is a good shout. I know folks who dig the recent Jesu work - bit too industrial for me....

Musically for inspiration he needs to re-visit the Stooges/Blue Cheer/Leonard Cohen/Hawkwind and Dylan - Eno and Low era Bowie and ya Krautrock axis - then have a crash course in some quality late 80s/90s Chicago sounds - ya Jesus Lizard, Shellac etc etc - dip his toe in some post rock maybe - forget the pomp metal dead end.. and the non-s**t end of the modern rock scene - by this I mean the first 3 x QOTSA albums, Lanegans work, Melvins, Black Mountain, Dead Meadow - even spinning out to ya mor eout there folks liek 6 Organs/Comets On Fire etc - bands looking back to the late 60/early 70s and fusing it with some of the more interesting post punk bits and er... pieces
He can listen to some quality dub of course.
None of this will happen though- c'est la vie....

Actually, sod it, just do a Jello and get The Melvins in as a backing band and get them to rewrite all the tunes, I could then die happy.

On a serious note ANYTHING to counteract the squeely Ibanez twiddly wank taking over would be a bonus. I love metal influence as in VT style panzer riffs and motorhead covers. But this late preponderance for clean solos with little harmonic tricks in them is most distressing.

1 Von +
1 acoustic guitar +
2 microphones +
Chamomile Tea +
Rick Rubin = (increasingly minor) Celebrity Plane Crash?

RobF wrote:We don't queue outside gigs from three in the afternoon drinking cheap vodka and sitting on kit-bags anymore, we don't pay £10 for cassette bootlegs at record-fairs anymore. The Sisters don't release albums anymore.

Bullshit! It's clear from his gig page that he's very proud of having done the stadium thing. He doesn't yearn to play small clubs, that's all he's got left! Fact is, he built the myth and can't possibly live up to expectations. Personally, I'm happy with that. The last thing I'd want to see is him mincing around on Friday Night Live like some we could mention...

Francis wrote:

RobF wrote:We don't queue outside gigs from three in the afternoon drinking cheap vodka and sitting on kit-bags anymore, we don't pay £10 for cassette bootlegs at record-fairs anymore. The Sisters don't release albums anymore.

Bullshit! It's clear from his gig page that he's very proud of having done the stadium thing. He doesn't yearn to play small clubs, that's all he's got left! Fact is, he built the myth and can't possibly live up to expectations. Personally, I'm happy with that. The last thing I'd want to see is him mincing around on Friday Night Live like some we could mention...

Erm, quite, yes, I agree entirely.

Quite how that relates to my quoted post continues to elude me. However if you wish to continue quoting my posts whilst making seemingly random points (albeit points I concur with fully) please continue.

RobF wrote:

Francis wrote:

RobF wrote:We don't queue outside gigs from three in the afternoon drinking cheap vodka and sitting on kit-bags anymore, we don't pay £10 for cassette bootlegs at record-fairs anymore. The Sisters don't release albums anymore.

Bullshit! It's clear from his gig page that he's very proud of having done the stadium thing. He doesn't yearn to play small clubs, that's all he's got left! Fact is, he built the myth and can't possibly live up to expectations. Personally, I'm happy with that. The last thing I'd want to see is him mincing around on Friday Night Live like some we could mention...

Erm, quite, yes, I agree entirely.

Quite how that relates to my quoted post continues to elude me. However if you wish to continue quoting my posts whilst making seemingly random points (albeit points I concur with fully) please continue.

K. And I'm only quoting you in case there should be any confusion about which Rob I'm referring to. You seemed to be saying that Mr E hasn't released any new material cos he doesn't like the impersonality (that's not the right word but you get my drift) of the current music business. I was only pointing out that he's not averse to a large crowd...

Someone above mentioned a case of That Guitarist releasing an album with new Sisters songs(a case that might lays on Science Fiction sphere)

Anyway, my question is other...
If has not release the songs and a band record one or two or all of them and release an album without permission or something...
How can defend the royalties or ownership of unreleased songs??

Unreleased songs can also be registered at Buma/Stemra etc.

But as far as I know, the music from Suzanne was written by Varjak, so both Von and Mike share the small income.

Or am I wrong.

As far as i know royalties are registered to the music writer of the song(composer) and the lyrics writer. The musicians take part in recordings take fees fixed by contract unless contract says otherwise,no matter how many copies are sold at the end.

The thing is that the legal way to hold royalties for your songs is usually by publishing the songs in a way. There must be paper copies, or recordings of music and lyrics published in a way.

None of us knows a way that uses to publish a new song...

RobF wrote: On a serious note ANYTHING to counteract the squeely Ibanez twiddly wank taking over would be a bonus. I love metal influence as in VT style panzer riffs and motorhead covers. But this late preponderance for clean solos with little harmonic tricks in them is most distressing.

Yep. The squeely guitar playing sounds dated, unimaginative and horrible.

Bring on the panzer riffs(TM)!