Heartland

Chubby Checker reaches settlement with makers of Chubby Checker.

Bonus: Chubby Checker used Palm.

it's nice to read that at least some people do care. Massive respect to Massive Attack.

Bartek wrote:it's nice to read that at least some people do care. Massive respect to Massive Attack.

Seconded

thirded. i have to say, the usual showbiz "do-gooders" are conspicuous by their silence again. there are many important issues for these people to champion but surely none more immediate than the attempted genocide of the palestinians by the israeli's.

I have a small problem here, I mean, being from where I am (Poland if someone doesn't know; German death camps - Auschwitz- Birkenau, Treblinka, Sobibor and many more), knowing history, history of my hometown and impact of Jews here (Wroclaw), respecting their culture, respecting right to defend, on one hand, and grabbing Palestinians' land just to build another settlement, treating Palestinians like Jews were treated in Europe during WWII (ghettos), dropping bomb on schools (like this UN school in Gaza) on the other hand, it's just beyond my mind. It's not that there is only one to blame, it has a complicated history, and yet again post-colonial Europe is another part to blame. But it looks that Israel is really going to push Palestinians from their land for good, and using the same primitive propaganda and accusing of being anti-Semitic everyone who will say something not-good about their actions - Jews are not making this looks better.

Bartek wrote:I have a small problem here, I mean, being from where I am (Poland if someone doesn't know; German death camps - Auschwitz- Birkenau, Treblinka, Sobibor and many more), knowing history, history of my hometown and impact of Jews here (Wroclaw), respecting their culture, respecting right to defend, on one hand, and grabbing Palestinians' land just to build another settlement, treating Palestinians like Jews were treated in Europe during WWII (ghettos), dropping bomb on schools (like this UN school in Gaza) on the other hand, it's just beyond my mind. It's not that there is only one to blame, it has a complicated history, and yet again post-colonial Europe is another part to blame. But it looks that Israel is really going to push Palestinians from their land for good, and using the same primitive propaganda and accusing of being anti-Semitic everyone who will say something not-good about their actions - Jews are not making this looks better.

Well said, I fully agree with you, Bartek. For me, being a German, it is even more difficult to express that I disagree with the current Israel offensive although the f***ing rocket firing extremists may deserve it, the (vast?) majority of Palestianin people do not

Victim of Circumstance wrote:

Bartek wrote:I have a small problem here, I mean, being from where I am (Poland if someone doesn't know; German death camps - Auschwitz- Birkenau, Treblinka, Sobibor and many more), knowing history, history of my hometown and impact of Jews here (Wroclaw), respecting their culture, respecting right to defend, on one hand, and grabbing Palestinians' land just to build another settlement, treating Palestinians like Jews were treated in Europe during WWII (ghettos), dropping bomb on schools (like this UN school in Gaza) on the other hand, it's just beyond my mind. It's not that there is only one to blame, it has a complicated history, and yet again post-colonial Europe is another part to blame. But it looks that Israel is really going to push Palestinians from their land for good, and using the same primitive propaganda and accusing of being anti-Semitic everyone who will say something not-good about their actions - Jews are not making this looks better.

Well said, I fully agree with you, Bartek. For me, being a German, it is even more difficult to express that I disagree with the current Israel offensive although the f***ing rocket firing extremists may deserve it, the (vast?) majority of Palestianin people do not

if you're going to be like that, didn't the english invent concentration camps? well, i'm english but i'm not responsible for concentration camps, the fire-bombing of dresden or letting poland get invaded to fuck whilst being their ally in the first place. the fact is none of us are responsible for the past-actions of others simply because we share their nationalities. what we ARE responsible for as citizens of the world now (as much as anyone else alive now) is if we do not learn from the lessons of the past. we owe it to our world to not stand idly by while israel commits atrocities in full view of everybody. no-one can claim to be ignorant of israle's actions; certainly there is no attempt to hide it as hitler did the "final solution".

History, history of Jews, mutual Palestine-Israel history - all that matter here; like matter rocket attacks by Hamas, like grabbing lands by Israel for new settlement, like treating Palestinians with deep disregard, like bus explosion in Jerusalem. All that is there, and there is no denying of anything.

And I thought that concentration camp was first "made" by Belgium in Congo.

eastmidswhizzkid wrote:

Victim of Circumstance wrote:

Bartek wrote:I have a small problem here, I mean, being from where I am (Poland if someone doesn't know; German death camps - Auschwitz- Birkenau, Treblinka, Sobibor and many more), knowing history, history of my hometown and impact of Jews here (Wroclaw), respecting their culture, respecting right to defend, on one hand, and grabbing Palestinians' land just to build another settlement, treating Palestinians like Jews were treated in Europe during WWII (ghettos), dropping bomb on schools (like this UN school in Gaza) on the other hand, it's just beyond my mind. It's not that there is only one to blame, it has a complicated history, and yet again post-colonial Europe is another part to blame. But it looks that Israel is really going to push Palestinians from their land for good, and using the same primitive propaganda and accusing of being anti-Semitic everyone who will say something not-good about their actions - Jews are not making this looks better.

Well said, I fully agree with you, Bartek. For me, being a German, it is even more difficult to express that I disagree with the current Israel offensive although the f***ing rocket firing extremists may deserve it, the (vast?) majority of Palestianin people do not

if you're going to be like that, didn't the english invent concentration camps? well, i'm english but i'm not responsible for concentration camps, the fire-bombing of dresden or letting poland get invaded to fuck whilst being their ally in the first place. the fact is none of us are responsible for the past-actions of others simply because we share their nationalities. what we ARE responsible for as citizens of the world now (as much as anyone else alive now) is if we do not learn from the lessons of the past. we owe it to our world to not stand idly by while israel commits atrocities in full view of everybody. no-one can claim to be ignorant of israle's actions; certainly there is no attempt to hide it as hitler did the "final solution".

Exactly, and other "nations" (I do not support that concept, but it is) have committed other genocides over history. So it definitely is upon everybody NOW to respond to what is going on NOW. Insofar, one important point I wish to add: THERE are - of course!!! - Jews and Jewish organisations who are NOT behind the actions of Israel and reject the idea that the Israeli government were speaking and acting on their behalf. Some examples... in no special order ...

http://www.btselem.org/ota
http://www.gush-shalom.org/
http://rhr.org.il/eng/
http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/
http://gisha.org/
http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/
http://ijsn.net/uncategorized/jews-agai ... nd-action/

I knew about what Israel Army is doing at borders and not only, because I read articles describing reports of Breaking the Silence and not only. And you can find at least the same numbers of organization supporting what Israel Army and Israel Gov. are doing in Palestine and Gaza.

And history does not justify actions of both Hamas and Israel, at least not everything, but allows us to understand reasons of this.

And we will do nothing, as we are not gonna do anything to stop wars in: Nigeria, Syria, Ukraine and so, and so. (Obviously by "we" i meant governments, EU, UN and so.)

It would seem that the only sensible solution to this issue is:
- grant Palestine the statehood that it has been asking for
- admit it as a UN member state
- hold it accountable to the same standards as other UN members

Right now it suits the Israeli government to deny the Palestinians a voice - that way, they're not represented or protected, and Israel can do what it damn' well pleases, take the land it wants, shell schools and hospitals under the pretense of "well, we thought they were bad guys", detain without trial, etc.

A lack of statehood also allows Hamas and any other rocket-toting nutjob to operate with impunity - there's no sovereign state to sanction them and no robust security service to prevent them. Further, it allows actors like Iran and Syria to operate with impunity, something that they would find it difficult in an enshrined state.

The tragedy is that the Palestinians are paying the price for their neighbours' ambitions. No-one - not Hamas, not Hizb'Allah, not the Al Aqsa Martyrs, not ISIS, no-one - reasonably believes that Israel will ever cease to exist. To believe such a thing would be an act of monumental blindness, and while these groups may be many things, led by idiots they're not. It suits Syria, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, to regularly fan the flames, funnel funds and weaponry to these groups, because they have a political agenda which is well-served by dead Palestinian kids. Not even the most extreme Islamist imagines that Hamas can ever even scratch Israel's paintwork, let-alone lead to the dissolution of the state.

When Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, it was first sanctioned and then a military force was mobilised to kick it out. One wonders why Israel's invasion of Palestine is not handled in the same way, and one must conclude that too many people are prepared to turn a blind eye for fear of being accused of anti-semitism. It's weird, no, that when Israel seeks to justify its acts against Palestine it positions itself as "a Jewish state fighting for its very survival against muslims," but when it wants money or funding it calls itself "the only democracy in the region". Seems to me that it has to choose - either its a theocracy, or its a democracy, but it can't have it both ways.

Some mighty find this interesting:

Sam Harris on I/P conflict

Cliff Richard?

I wondered why he'd left the UK.

sultan2075 wrote:Some mighty find this interesting:

Sam Harris on I/P conflict

Very much so.

Interesting that he disputes the legitimacy of the existence of Israel, and yet still defends it. My opinion is that Zionism itself is antisemitic, based as it is on the idea that the Jewish people somehow "don't belong" in Europe. Since the diaspora, most Jewish people have been European for nearly two millennia. Not to mention that the religious nature of the Jewish people's claim to a "homeland" in Palestine can't really be taken seriously as the basis for a modern secular state.

Having said that, most Israelis now were born there, and I do sympathise with Israel's view of itself as a nation under siege. However Israel doesn't help itself: any criticism of Israel is dismissed in some quarters as antisemitic without actually addressing the criticism, and it's difficult to see the treatment of the Palestinians as anything other than a genocide.

And there's the added factor that the last Israeli leader who genuinely tried to make peace was assassinated for his trouble...

markfiend wrote:Cliff Richard?

I wondered why he'd left the UK.

i have to say i'm not surprised at all about this one.

I'm sorry democracy is changing there into Dogocracy

eastmidswhizzkid wrote:

markfiend wrote:Cliff Richard?

I wondered why he'd left the UK.

i have to say i'm not surprised at all about this one.

Police have confirmed they found small speakers & tall speakers



He left the UK to avoid tax didn't he?

Bartek wrote:I'm sorry democracy is changing there into Dogocracy

you've got to feel sorry for the human that he beat though...must be a popular guy.

markfiend wrote:and it's difficult to see the treatment of the Palestinians as anything other than a genocide.

It must be the only 'genocide' then where the victim race has multiplied in numbers.

nowayjose wrote:

markfiend wrote:and it's difficult to see the treatment of the Palestinians as anything other than a genocide.

It must be the only 'genocide' then where the victim race has multiplied in numbers.

... good joke, especially given the fact that Palestinians and Jews are Semites alike when we're talking about "race"... ...

Still, I wouldn't want to call it "genocide" either, but what the Israeli army is doing in Gaza is entirely reckless shooting at the very least, and without distinguishing between civilians, civilian property and infrastructure, and legitimate military targets. And they explicitly do so on purpose! Of course, the rocket firing by Hamas and/or other armed Palestinian groups is no better. Fact is that all parties to whatever conflict are obligated to protect civilians and to take effective precautions to avoid harm to civilians, civilian property and civilian infrastructure. Israel is just bombing down as much of Gaza as they possibly can without risking too much criticsm from the Western world. And of course, as the borders are completely under Israeli control, there is hardly much chance for reconstruction ... all the damage and destruction of 2008/9 and 2012 is far from being repaired or rebuild as construction material has not been allowed into Gaza for years, just like schoolbooks, btw ... no it's not genocide... genodiet, perhaps... but that word would not cover the situation of the water and sewage system ... and the depleted uranium and phosphor weapons used on this people ... so maybe we call it contaminated genodiet ... Black Planet live, but hell, it's only Muslim Palestinians or what!?

In other news.
Hello Kitty is NOT a cat

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-29438389

Majestyk (former nightclub and cinema) in Leeds burns down, man arrested.

Oh cr@p!
What a mess.
Hope no-one was hurt