Heartland

I registered to talk abot this gig. I was stage front right, between Dylan and the monitor mixing desk. There were two desks, one to the right of the stage for the monitors, one back in the crowd for the main PA. All through the show Dylan was going back and forward to the monitor desk, gesturing and leaning into the engineer's ear. Towards the end he's very clearly gettign hugely frustrated. As others have said there are a lot of sound issues throughout the main act (although the Virgin Mary's set was crystal clear). Lots of feedback, and I could only tell that Eldritch was singing because I could see his lips moving, It might as well have been an instrumental set until the encores.
Anyway. After Lucretia, Dylan leaves the stage and has a longish 'chat' with the engineer at the monitors desk. Comes back on for Temple, gives up almost immediately. Takes hs guitar off and hands it to the tech. Tech comes back up with a different guitar, but Dylan sends him away and starts playing air guitar instead. Eldritch heads over, there's a brief interaction which ends with Eldritch physically pushing Dylan off the stage, to the point where Dylan has to catch himself to avoid falling down the stairs. Dylan heads straight for the exit clearly very upset, a bunch of backstage crew members chase after him and escort him back behind the stage (presumably to the greenroom). Dylan doesn't come back. Eldritch and Ben play the rest of the set. But honestly the gig has basically been the Ben Christo & Doktor Avalanche show. The rest of the band may as well have taken the night off, you either couldn't hear them, or they spent more of the gig arguing with the sound crew than playing.

It's a shame because I've seen the Sisters maybe a dozen times and they've always been a solid show. This was unacceptably bad though. A waste of the Roundhouse, and a waste of such stellar material. I've seen reviews of other recent gigs that also mentioned that the vocals were inaudible in the mix so I'm not sure if this really was a technical issue or if it's a deliberate decision to downplay Andrew's voice. It was noticeable that Ben was doing a lot of the singing (although his mic was also mixed very low) and as mentioned there were definitely some backing tracks in play. Maybe It's time to hang up the mirrorshades?

Curiouser and curiouser - am I just blind or are the two Roundhouse dates missing from this? https://www.dylanchrisfordsmith.com/tour

sultan2075 wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 00:26 Curiouser and curiouser - am I just blind or are the two Roundhouse dates missing from this? https://www.dylanchrisfordsmith.com/tour

They are, but that page was last updated on April 7th, so I assume the Roundhouse dates were a late addition to the itinerary rather than being retroactively removed from his page.

Hello @Serialforeigner & welcome to

Serialforeigner wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023, 20:13 I registered to talk abot this gig. I was stage front right, between Dylan and the monitor mixing desk. There were two desks, one to the right of the stage for the monitors, one back in the crowd for the main PA. All through the show Dylan was going back and forward to the monitor desk, gesturing and leaning into the engineer's ear. Towards the end he's very clearly gettign hugely frustrated. As others have said there are a lot of sound issues throughout the main act (although the Virgin Mary's set was crystal clear). Lots of feedback, and I could only tell that Eldritch was singing because I could see his lips moving, It might as well have been an instrumental set until the encores.
Anyway. After Lucretia, Dylan leaves the stage and has a longish 'chat' with the engineer at the monitors desk. Comes back on for Temple, gives up almost immediately. Takes hs guitar off and hands it to the tech. Tech comes back up with a different guitar, but Dylan sends him away and starts playing air guitar instead. Eldritch heads over, there's a brief interaction which ends with Eldritch physically pushing Dylan off the stage, to the point where Dylan has to catch himself to avoid falling down the stairs. Dylan heads straight for the exit clearly very upset, a bunch of backstage crew members chase after him and escort him back behind the stage (presumably to the greenroom). Dylan doesn't come back. Eldritch and Ben play the rest of the set. But honestly the gig has basically been the Ben Christo & Doktor Avalanche show. The rest of the band may as well have taken the night off, you either couldn't hear them, or they spent more of the gig arguing with the sound crew than playing.

It's a shame because I've seen the Sisters maybe a dozen times and they've always been a solid show. This was unacceptably bad though. A waste of the Roundhouse, and a waste of such stellar material. I've seen reviews of other recent gigs that also mentioned that the vocals were inaudible in the mix so I'm not sure if this really was a technical issue or if it's a deliberate decision to downplay Andrew's voice. It was noticeable that Ben was doing a lot of the singing (although his mic was also mixed very low) and as mentioned there were definitely some backing tracks in play. Maybe It's time to hang up the mirrorshades?

Unfortunately this backs up my fears - particularly regarding Christo's vocals being used too much and AE's voice being shot. Dylan co-wrote the new songs and brought life to the band after years of stagnation (AE in 2012 - "We prefer to look forward" total bs). So him leaving means the band lose some authenticity for me. I'll keep an eye on how things go but my Bristol tickets are up for sale for the moment if anyone's interested.

As I think I mentioned earlier we bumped into Dylan on our way out of the venue by the door. I hadn’t really appreciated what had been going on on the far side of the stage and it seemed a bit strange (to say the least) for him to be walking back in as we were going the other way out. I asked him how he was with not much of an answer, then said “See you tomorrow” to which he responded something like “If I’m still around.” To be fair to him he did stop to pose for a photo with Gothicbiff but he looked a bit broken.

My thoughts, for what it’s worth, is I think it would be unbelievably harsh to sack him just for this. We’ve all had bad days at work, not least Andrew who’s staggered his way through and screwed up more songs than most. I know it’s his toy set but still. So maybe there’s something been brewing.

As soon as I saw Chris stood there it seemed.. weird, bit like having your partner’s ex standing behind you while you’re with her. Also it’s towards then end of a long tour and I can imagine relationships may be stressed, and the fact that Chris is there first chance available would make me feel paranoid to be honest. Get well soon Mrs Ravey, but let’s be honest, anyone could have stood there pressing “play”, or it could even have been done from the desk.

Put all that together and with a bit of empathy it’s not hard to imagine someone’s head going a bit, and maybe having a bit too much of whatever, and then all the guitar technical issues we’ve heard about, and you easily end up here.

So what now then? Personally, with the benefit of a couple of days off between dates, I’d be hoping a sincere apology and a final warning could do it, if indeed Dylan feels like apologising when he reflects on what happened. Before Saturday I’d have thought the idea of Andrew accepting such an apology would be a non starter, but watching how he was after the Saturday show makes me think there may be a tiny (tiny) chance.
We’ll see.

Talking of stress or disagreements was nt there an episode during the 2022 tour where Dylan was flicking V's towards Von on stage? Kind of rings a bell.

@Ruffers I totally agree on everything you just said. They've been touring for ages with remarkably few incidents, Dylan has brought so much to the band it'd be a tragedy to loose him. It's a hard lifestyle to maintain and the band would be significantly poorer without him.
Enjoyed the second night, it was at least the loudest it's been in years. Andrew was fired up enough to be present and into it. Ben did great, his Det/Jeep solo was magnificent but I honestly can't stand his singing (not to mention the preening posing) at all. I went with an old friend on Friday who hadn't seen them since the early days and it felt like some kind of abuse, he was horrified at how unintelligible Andrew was and how uncool Ben's stage presence and jaunty vocal grated.
On Saturday I headed towards the venue wondering if this would be my last sisters gig, (I think it's around number 50 for me, once or twice a year depending on circumstance since 1990) but the show was good if a little uneven, here's hoping the next few dates repair some of the damage, to coin a phrase I still want more.
Lovely to see you all in the Enterprise, Dave I didn't get a chance to say hi we were passing ships this time, next time I hope. Shout out to Trevor for the signed book and great chats. To the usual crew you're all solid gold, great to catch up, hope to do it again soon.
Hope things improve for Davey he also brings a lot to the stage, Chris standing around doing nothing but vaping was a waste, give him a slot on bass guitar if the stuff is all automated.
One final thing, I don't understand Andrew's insistence on singing songs that clearly bring out the worst in his voice. Valentine, Black Sail, War on Drugs, There's A Door, She's A Monster, Colours even, any of the more spoken style lyrics he can do easily, the strained cat without the high notes is killing the songs. The new stuff was meant to assist him and it's getting replaced with jaded older things already. I don't blame Dylan his frustrations, living it must be difficult.

Not having been there I can only gather what happened from your reports. It obviously was a complete s**t show.
I agree with those of you who find it hard to find excuses for such behaviour from Dylan. It’s a low move to be playing air guitar and throwing hissy fits when technical problems occur. And none of the band is 20 years old when it would be forgivable for lack of experience and frustration tolerance to deal with something this way. But then again we are all human.
The fact that there was a microphone in Dylan‘s height on the second night and they walked on late, makes me think that Andrew / the band hoped that he would return and play, which he didn’t. So I see no way how he could remain in the band.
I don’t second the view that having Chris in the back would be a reason to get paranoid. I believe it surely must have been communicated within the band before that he would be there. And I don’t know if all Ravey Davey is usually doing is press play. I doubt it though.
I admit it. I have always been team Chris and I‘d love to see him back on guitar or bass. And I don’t see why there would be another standstill if he returned.
Admittedly with Dylan‘s arrival there was a lot of fresh spirit and creativity within the band. And Andrew said he didn’t know what changed but something did. If Chris returned now, why shouldn’t it go on? Or are those who equal Chris‘ return with another standstill blaming him for the years of not much happening? That would be very unfair I think.
We all know Von does exactly what he likes. During the last few years he obviously enjoyed writing and performing more than in years. And Chris is a brilliant musician too. So why would it change.

To Ravey Davey and his wife: best wishes for a quick recovery and all the best from here too! Hope to see you on stage again very soon!

Dr. Moody wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 10:20Lovely to see you all in the Enterprise, Dave I didn't get a chance to say hi we were passing ships this time, next time I hope. Shout out to Trevor for the signed book and great chats. To the usual crew you're all solid gold, great to catch up, hope to do it again soon.

No worries Doc, it's always a melee of folk and conversation at the Enterprise, never is that a bad thing even if you miss some. As a counterpoise, it was a total pleasure for me to finally meet and chat with @dtsom and @edu, to name but two among many

Glad you enjoyed the second night, couldn't agree more with your thoughts on Dylan's sitch, I didn't for one second feel disrespected by him at any stage, I felt sorry for him and the obvious struggle he was having more or less from the off.

Anyway I guess by tomorrow eve we'll have a clearer notion of how the rest of this tour will go, in terms of personnel. Ultimately if the future is one guitarist, more volume and clearer vocal then that's no bad thing, but trying to second guess this bunch is pointless. As you say, we'll see.

Had a great time Friday night & a mate who’d somehow never seen them said they were better than he expected, so there’s that.

Clocked Chris as Nurse as soon as! Was a bit confused about why they were suddenly a guitarist down during Temple but too into it bouncing & singing along to give it much thought until the aftershow analysis.

Wouldn’t want to second guess what was going on with Dylan, could be anything personal & what was happening onstage/behind the scenes. But when i saw his mic on photos from Saturday it does seem like Von was willing to forgive/forget. Younger hired hands are going to make the same mistakes the older guy did (i know Ben is straightedge, but not everyone can manage that on the road…)
We were never gonna get a new record anyway (c’mon). The cycle of songwriting / then line up reshuffle / then new songwriting / could repeat ad infinitum, but as others have already said, who knows?

The really important thing bears repeating — hope Ravey Davey’s Mrs is all right x

Ps: Marian still hit me where it hurts, even though.

Dr. Moody wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 10:20
One final thing, I don't understand Andrew's insistence on singing songs that clearly bring out the worst in his voice. Valentine, Black Sail, War on Drugs, There's A Door, She's A Monster, Colours even, any of the more spoken style lyrics he can do easily, the strained cat without the high notes is killing the songs. The new stuff was meant to assist him and it's getting replaced with jaded older things already. I don't blame Dylan his frustrations, living it must be difficult.

In some cases, it's the hits that they know people want to hear so quite hard to really drop all of them, I guess.

As you didn't specify which tracks in particular you feel ought to be avoided, hard to say more.

Well I think (after watching again) Dylan was just straight up s**t.

Drunk even.

godgirl wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 19:13

Dr. Moody wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 10:20
One final thing, I don't understand Andrew's insistence on singing songs that clearly bring out the worst in his voice. Valentine, Black Sail, War on Drugs, There's A Door, She's A Monster, Colours even, any of the more spoken style lyrics he can do easily, the strained cat without the high notes is killing the songs. The new stuff was meant to assist him and it's getting replaced with jaded older things already. I don't blame Dylan his frustrations, living it must be difficult.

In some cases, it's the hits that they know people want to hear so quite hard to really drop all of them, I guess.

As you didn't specify which tracks in particular you feel ought to be avoided, hard to say more.

Everything's fine, don't worry about it.

A review with a handful of photos

Pista wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 07:48 A review with a handful of photos

Nice review and pics, cheers for the linky Steve

I am an admitted Sisters of Mercy Casual (in fact this post could be titled Confessions of a Sisters of Mercy Casual) who has only been to three gigs – all at that Roundhouse, the first in 2017, the second in 2021 (the Friday) and the third now in 2023 (the Friday again).
As with other people on the board because of the events of Friday night I feel compelled to post (I have a fever to tell) here on Heartland – to make sense of things and to add my perspective.

I remember when I first saw the Sisters in 2017 I’d been a bit disappointed as they hadn’t been what I’d been expecting. I remember Eldritch was casually dressed in a hoody, the vocals were difficult to discern and he seemed to leave a lot of the heavy lifting to his youthful guitarist. I’d seen the m*****n and Fields of the Nephilim in the previous years and left feeling they were superior live acts even if the Sisters Hits – the ones I knew from Goth clubs like Wendy House or Slimelight – were far superior.

On my second gig in 2021 I wasn’t expecting much (or perhaps knew what to expect) and as a result I was really blown away but how good the gig was. I could make out Eldritch’s voice much more clearly in the set and actually really enjoyed his shadow puppertry and stop-start scuttling around the stage and the barricades. I’d also got into the remixes of the new songs put out by the fans and was moving beyond the goth club floorfillers. It was a great gig one of the best I’d ever attended. My enthusiasm was such I bought a t-shirt from the official merch stand and one from the bootleggers on the pavement outside.

For the 2023 gig I’d readied myself by looking at the set-lists here on Heartland from the US tour and making sure I’d listened to any unfamiliar songs so I had the measure of them.

At the gig I made my way to the front and felt that thrill of excitement as the band came out on stage through the smoke and the green gloomy light. I was surprised by how my twenty somethings there were in the crowd and the energy of people in the pit – they even moshed along to the instrumentals. However, initially I couldn’t make out a word Eldritch was saying and it was only by listening along to the singing of the fans that I was able to realise what was actually being played. Songs like Dominion were like a collective karaoke session in which the fans willed the songs into being. Even a song like Dr Jeep, which has become one I play on constant rotation (don’t judge me) I didn’t recognise until the transition to Detonation Boulevade kicked in.

Three quarters of the way through the set around Crash and Burn I felt that maybe the problem was the pit itself (and also myself – was there something wrong with my ability to recognise a tune?) and so I went to the back stood by a pillar and indeed I could make out the lyrics and melody much more clearly and I enjoyed it more, or rather enjoyed it in a different way. I was following the songs – Vision Thing and On the Beach really stand out – rather than being part of a collective group of people filled with energy and a similar mindset. The difference in the sound is backed up by the gig footage where you can actually hear the sound quite well. Although I don’t know why it should be this way?

I knew that sound was an issue during the gig and I noticed Dylan talking to people off stage and Eldritch come over at certain points as well. I didn’t notice Dylan leave until the encore. I remember Eldritch mumbling ‘You’ve been very kind’ to the audience as he and Dylan posed and then how he was left bowed on his own at the end, which seemed like a really long time (although the gig footage reveals it was only a few seconds).

Afterwards in the queue for the cloakroom a man in his fifties turned to me and said in a slightly accusative tone ‘were you happy with that?!’ In the manner you might say to a fellow football fan when your team had put in a middling and lacklustre performance in the Conference resulting in a nil nil draw. I wasn’t sure how I felt, I said ‘tomorrow is another day’ and picked up my trench coat. But I was intrigued by what other fans thought of it.

Afterwards I went to the Enterprise, which I’d learnt from Heartlands was the pub for Sisters fans to congregate in f. People were very friendly and happy to discuss the gig. One fan in his fifties told me how he’d considered bringing his niece to the gig as she really liked listening to the music. ‘But how could I bring her to that?’ he gestured.

He asked another Sisters fan what he’d say to his niece and his friend replied, ‘she needs a bigger sample size – only after twenty Sisters gigs can you discern if one is good or not.’ He himself had been to thirty-five gigs.

This was nothing however, as the next woman I chatted to from Germany had been to 95 gigs! Her opinion was that ‘every gig was different and tomorrow will be a different gig again.’ I was slightly in awe of the level of devotion and commitment that Sisters of Mercy fans were willing to give to the band. Were I to get to the requisite sample size of 20 (let alone 95) I would need to make some significant life choices.

Finally, I got chatting to a Dad who hadn’t come to the gig himself but was here to pick up his teenage daughter who had been. I recognised her from the mosh pit and asked her if she could hear Eldritch’s vocals to which she replied ‘she couldn’t.’ But she’d still had a good time. It was her first Sisters gig. I asked her what had drawn her to the Sisters and she said, ‘she’d always liked new wave and dark stuff.’ I was impressed that people could come to the Sisters new as I had six years ago, that the Sisters could still write new material and attract new fans.

Overall, although in the aftermath, I felt I’d been unlucky not to have been at a gig as good as my previous experience in 2021 – the gig has stayed with me since then and I’ve been reading Heartlands regularly to see what others through of it. Now I wish I’d gone on the Saturday night as well. Maybe I can make Manchester later in the tour.

Interesting perspective Stiltfoxx, you get the honour of being a gig that will go down in folklore anyway. Welcome to the forum!

Having a couple of days to reflect on things I've become more philosophical. Friday's gig wasn't one of the best it's fair to say, with sound problems and other goings ons. Saturday night, despite the obvious absence was much more enjoyable. Ben was pretty heroic to be fair. I've seen a few other bands, such as the Bunnymen for instance, where the concerts have been alright but I've never particularly been bothered at not seeing them again. If I was told I couldn't see the Sisters again I'd be very annoyed, even if the sound is occasionally ********** and there's unexpected drama. Maybe it's because I get to meet old friends and new people, see different towns, hear new songs and have a laugh and a drink (even if these days it's occasionally non-alcoholic). Yes, it costs quite a ridiculous lot, especially in London and I do buy too many t-shirts but I'd def miss the Sisters and you lot if it was gone.

Stiltfoxx wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 14:15He asked another Sisters fan what he’d say to his niece and his friend replied, ‘she needs a bigger sample size – only after twenty Sisters gigs can you discern if one is good or not.’ He himself had been to thirty-five gigs.

Hello Stiltfoxx - that was me

Sorry - I was being slightly facetious in that remark, probably due to the effects of alcohol - you can, of course, decide whether a gig is good or not based solely on attending a single gig, because such an opinion is entirely your own.

lazarus corporation wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 14:40

Stiltfoxx wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 14:15He asked another Sisters fan what he’d say to his niece and his friend replied, ‘she needs a bigger sample size – only after twenty Sisters gigs can you discern if one is good or not.’ He himself had been to thirty-five gigs.

Hello Stiltfoxx - that was me

Sorry - I was being slightly facetious in that remark, probably due to the effects of alcohol - you can, of course, decide whether a gig is good or not based solely on attending a single gig, because such an opinion is entirely your own.

Haha thanks for responding Lazarus and also to chatting with me on Friday night.

Actually it was a very helpful suggestion - as you can see from my post it made me reflect on how one's perspective on a gig are linked to your own personal history with a band and equally how you knowledge and appreciation of them changes with time. For example, would I agree with my 2017 self that thought the m*****n or Fields of the Nephilim were a better live act - no I certainly would not.

I hope to increase my Sisters sample size to statistically viable levels in the next couple of years all being well.

Stiltfoxx wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 14:15 I am an admitted Sisters of Mercy Casual (in fact this post could be titled Confessions of a Sisters of Mercy Casual) who has only been to three gigs – all at that Roundhouse, the first in 2017, the second in 2021 (the Friday) and the third now in 2023 (the Friday again).

Good review, thanks Stilt.

I myself had a great time both nights but found the gig better on the Friday, which seems at odds with some others' opinions.

I always love Sisters gigs, but I'll admit it's been a long time -- probably since the 2005 USA tour -- that I've allowed my enjoyment of the gig to rest on the performance alone. Sometimes you get an absolute stormer, like Boston or New York 2023, and sometimes not.

This time around I was just extremely happy to see old friends and meet new ones, see The Sisters yet again (for the first time in London no less), and witness what sill surely become a historic and much-discussed gig.

If anyone's interested to see what the band is capable of in 2023, New York City is a great example:

Hello @Stiltfoxx & welcome to

Planet Dave wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 11:57

Dr. Moody wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 10:20Lovely to see you all in the Enterprise, Dave I didn't get a chance to say hi we were passing ships this time, next time I hope. Shout out to Trevor for the signed book and great chats. To the usual crew you're all solid gold, great to catch up, hope to do it again soon.

No worries Doc, it's always a melee of folk and conversation at the Enterprise, never is that a bad thing even if you miss some. As a counterpoise, it was a total pleasure for me to finally meet and chat with @dtsom and @edu, to name but two among many

Glad you enjoyed the second night, couldn't agree more with your thoughts on Dylan's sitch, I didn't for one second feel disrespected by him at any stage, I felt sorry for him and the obvious struggle he was having more or less from the off.

Anyway I guess by tomorrow eve we'll have a clearer notion of how the rest of this tour will go, in terms of personnel. Ultimately if the future is one guitarist, more volume and clearer vocal then that's no bad thing, but trying to second guess this bunch is pointless. As you say, we'll see.

@Planet Dave The pleasure was mine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!