Heartland

I think the whole discussion is pretty useless. Success lies in the eye of the beholder.

TSOM are hugely successful because they're able to tour without product or promotion in decent sized venues (I surely wouldn't call them stadions)
TSOM are hugely successful because they still have fans despite of not having released anything the past decades. I guess very few artists can come up with this a loyal fanbase.
TSOM are not successful if you look on their career in a whole. It started all very rocket-like and came pretty soon to a halt.

For a fan they're successful because their music means a lot to him.
For a booker they're less interesting after their last tour. (The next tour would have to be downsized)
For a record company exec. they're not successful anymore.

canon docre wrote:I think the whole discussion is pretty useless. Success lies in the eye of the beholder.

TSOM are hugely successful because they're able to tour without product or promotion in decent sized venues (I surely wouldn't call them stadions)
TSOM are hugely successful because they still have fans despite of not having released anything the past decades. I guess very few artists can come up with this a loyal fanbase.
TSOM are not successful if you look on their career in a whole. It started all very rocket-like and came pretty soon to a halt.

For a fan they're successful because their music means a lot to him.
For a booker they're less interesting after their last tour. (The next tour would have to be downsized)
For a record company exec. they're not successful anymore.

The harsh realities of life in the pop industry, eloquently put as ever by a girl who knows.

A good and well managed band makes more money touring. An album is pretty much an advert for the tour. There is an interview with the singer from Tool on theonion which explains it better than me.

"MJK: We had to look at the record company and show them, "See, this is what we make when we tour. This is what we make on album sales. We don't need to make albums. You want us to make an album, dinosaur? How's that tar pit doing for you?" If they want to survive into the next millennium, they have to figure out a way, but we get to have fun with our album artwork, because they understand that it's something they have to do to be relevant in this new world order. "

markreed wrote:A good and well managed band makes more money touring. An album is pretty much an advert for the tour.

Funny that. I seem to remember Led Zeppelin saying that their tours were basically adverts for the albums; how times change!

markfiend wrote:Zeppelin saying that their tours were basically adverts for the albums; how times change!

Which says a hell of a lot about the amount of albums/singles sold nowadays

Yeah well the fact that industry wants nothing to do with him is an endorsement to me and reason to suspect that he's actually a very decent human being.

Interesting logic there. The industry also wants nothing to do with Gary Glitter. So...? I think Von probably is a decent human being, but I don't see this proved or disproved by his dealings with the record company, which amongst other things do reveal a good deal of lofty arrogance, even if he's right on specific issues. Just like his dealings with journalists. So the jury's out on that one, I should think.

Hello all. First post - please be merciful (or don't. I'm easy)

Sisters successful

Sisters seriously bleedin' frustrating ? Oh yes.

I guess I'm not that much of a real fan having been kicking about reading stuff on here today. I've never ever seen 'em in concert. I've virtually never seen any band in concert. I'm hardly a real muso. It just so happens that the music that (possibly perversely) makes me happy (sort of) is that of Mr Eldritch.

I've just entered the modern world and bought a laptop. Hadn't heard anything new from the Sisters since 1992 - when I went to Uni, discovered 'A Slight Case Of Over-Bombing' - and irritated the crap out of my corridor 'mates' by constantly playing Temple Of Love at deafening volumes. And confusing them all by playing 'goth' music whilst being the least 'goth' type person you could ever possibly encounter.

So - I'd like to say an enormous 'thank you' to the people who've provided sharing material here. I feel like a kid in a seriously enormous candy store. Loadsa stuff thats new for me - its like a whole new world opening up

Thank you people, fascinating and dedicated and informative forum.

Von - get off your lazy ass and record an album. Some chance........

How out of place would a (recedingly) blonde haired type who likes smart shirts and nice sweaters look at a SOM concert ?

Bullied By Geese wrote:How out of place would a (recedingly) blonde haired type who likes smart shirts and nice sweaters look at a SOM concert ?

you'd fit right in

Welcome!

Bullied By Geese wrote: I've virtually never seen any band in concert.

Now that's surprising. May I ask where you live? In the tundra? Kyrgyzstan? Somewhere by the Amazonas?

Are the Sisiters succesful??

Answer yes and no

I've always felt, that every time the sisters have got close to being bigger than what they are Eldritch has gone out of his way to sabotage it. 3 albums with 3 different line ups and Vision Thing is terrible (lyrically good, musically repetative and boring!).

Go back to 85 the sisters were on the verge of being massive, within months 3 members had left. Dispite what some of you think about That Guitarist, the Eldritch, Marx, Adams and Hussey line up was and still is the best.

The sisters released from there contract in 97ish could of had any deal the wanted from any label they wanted, but I get the impression Eldritch just wants to keep this air of mystery about the band, which is also why the are still succesful without doing much these days.

Whatever they do in the future The sisters are still a great band

Potski wrote:Are the Sisiters succesful??

Answer yes and no

I've always felt, that every time the sisters have got close to being bigger than what they are Eldritch has gone out of his way to sabotage it. 3 albums with 3 different line ups and Vision Thing is terrible (lyrically good, musically repetative and boring!).

Go back to 85 the sisters were on the verge of being massive, within months 3 members had left. Dispite what some of you think about That Guitarist, the Eldritch, Marx, Adams and Hussey line up was and still is the best.

The sisters released from there contract in 97ish could of had any deal the wanted from any label they wanted, but I get the impression Eldritch just wants to keep this air of mystery about the band, which is also why the are still succesful without doing much these days.

Whatever they do in the future The sisters are still a great band

No, it isnt terrible. The best "iggy pop on mega power" album ive heard
for ages and vons voice sounds really cool on that album especially on Dr. Jeep and Ribbons.

I still don't see why he can't release something through the website, iTunes etc.

Curve did it with Open Day At The Hatefest and The New Adventures Of Curve CDs. A limited run of 10,000 each I think at about 10 quid each. They sold out, so that is approx 100,000 quid brought in by each CD. Now minus the cost of production, artwork etc that is still a nice little profit.

Even releasing an EP or something would bring in the money.

It does make me wonder how he has made his money over the last few years. I know tours have to be profitable, but can they be profitable enough to sustain the Sister machine?

CellThree wrote:I still don't see why he can't release something through the website, iTunes etc.

Curve did it with Open Day At The Hatefest and The New Adventures Of Curve CDs. A limited run of 10,000 each I think at about 10 quid each. They sold out, so that is approx 100,000 quid brought in by each CD. Now minus the cost of production, artwork etc that is still a nice little profit.

Even releasing an EP or something would bring in the money.

It does make me wonder how he has made his money over the last few years. I know tours have to be profitable, but can they be profitable enough to sustain the Sister machine?

I just don't think that Von has fully embraced the idea of the internet as a serious profit-making platform yet - simple as that. Which is a shame.

CellThree wrote: I just don't think that Von has fully embraced the idea of the internet as a serious profit-making platform yet - simple as that. Which is a shame.

In the Brazil interview, he talks about getting offered 1 cent (US?) per song download by Warner Brothers. I'm not familiar with the recording business but if you do a conservative estimate of the Sisters market, it probably isn't even nearly cost covering starting up the production engine for that price. If the 1c quote is true and typical, then I'd think that those platforms are more for companies cashing in on the big mainstream acts that already have amortized production costs many times over through ordinary sales and the online downloads would just be an additional method of squeezing out a little bit more yet, but not for smaller bands who want to put out new stuff -- that is, solely on this platform.
As for selling through the Sisters website, this would require turning it into an online shop (for which he probably doesn't have the expertise), or renting online shop space somewhere. He'd have to do promotion by himself (very difficult to reach more than the rather small hardcore Sisters fan market without expensive promotion), and then there's the question of technical issues, how to pay, etc. Paypal? I think not (http://www.paypalsucks.com/). Credit card? Ok, but not everyone's got one, or would pay with it through some small, essentially untrusted band webserver. So you'd need to sell it through a bigger webshop if you want to offer more and better payment options, which adds complexity and diminishes revenue and still wouldn't reach that many people. He'd probably also have to make advance financing of production costs, hire support staff etc., everything a "classical" record deal with a major record company would relieve him of, plus the prospect of reaching a _much_ larger market and selling an actual physical product (instead of 128kbit lossy encoded files or so).
Besides, would we really want to have a new album (which we waited for for so long) being sold essentially out of the boot at some digital fleamarket?

The two webshosts that I have dealt with both offer software to run an online shop as part of the deal. So it wouldn't be beyond the scope to do that.

Curve did it by doing a deal with musicnonstop.co.uk and then also taking payment directly by cheque (which was cheaper).

Mr Marx did the same thing with his albums. no idea how many he sold, but he sold out, and after recouping his outlay I'm sure he had a few quid left over.

Credit cards usually have online payment protection as standard nowadays so at least if something bad DID happen, the consumer wouldn't lose any money. As for Paypal, I've used it a lot as a buyer and it is a fast way of paying, but as a seller they do take a nasty cut. but then again, I usually work out what I would want as a minimum for the product then add the costs on.

As far as CDs go, you can make a professional looking product in volume fairly cheaply. Just looking at some sites, for a minimum 1000 disc production with full colour booklet etc you're looking at a price of less than a pound a disc. So depending on cashflow you're looking at spending between 5000 and 10,000 pounds on a 10,000 CD run. Add on another couple of thousand for general costs and there is still a handsome profit even after tax. Once the inital run has gone through he could either re-release it or sell the rights to a third-party company who'll just pay him royalties.

I suppose though, he has had a taste of the big time and anything else will pale in comparison. Hence the figure of $3,000,000 that has been rumoured to be his asking price.

After so many people giving their opinions , i could not handle not giving mine.
yes i think that the first era was the best,WAYNE,ADAMandMARX not only because it was a new sound but also for the melody and the lyrics.....
yes i think Eldritch should go back to work and start a new album, how many new songs did he do after the first split?and how many songs Wayne did with the m*****n?(just to justify that maybe this line up was good together,some for the lyrics and other for the music?).
i was at the sisters concert 2006,at the House of Blues in Los Angeles,i was surprised by the place (small) and yes sisters did 2 nights ,but still a small venue.We were probably 500 or 600......that is when i realized that Eldritch should do a new album,yes there will always be fans for the Sisters but also for other bands.
I don t know how much difficult it is to keep a band together,but i think that a lot of them went down after splitting,DEAD CAN DANCE,THE CHAMELEONS,BAUHAUS...Doing their own things but still reforming for a come back,chemical is a weird thing between human.
At the end, i will follow Eldritch till the morning comes........ever and always
yours faithfully,
manasha on a black planet

money ,money ,money.............is that all for an artist?
if he wants so much money,he should be more commercial........and pull out some new albums...............
after so many years without an album, he still live comfortably (and not) numb ..................
peace of mind is priceless,he does what he wants when he wants......that s pure artist.

Karst wrote: Eldritch could have done a Gary Numan if he'd being willing to do so. Apparently not.

What, wear a really bad wig?