Heartland

Erudite wrote:

Dark wrote:Let Scotland do what they want.

If they want to become independent, they can, so long as it's all done properly.

If we remove all the borders, fine, so long as it's all done properly.

Do I detect a theme here?

Yes. Do what's right for people, and for the love of god, avoid f**king it up.

scotty wrote:It's a shit idea IMO, "if it aint broke don't fix it".That prick Mel Gibson has a lot to answer for.............Khunt

Tried getting hold of an NHS dentist lately?
You certainly won't in the North East.
The system is very broken.
Frankly, it's a bloody disgrace in this day and age that anybody leaves school without the ability to read, write or perform basic arithmetic.
And they wonder why it's so bloody difficult for people to fill out a ballot paper correctly?

Not that I'm suggesting for one moment that Independence will sort that.
However, not spending x amount of millions on fighting unjust wars and proliferating the UK's very real WMD's would certainly go a long way towards helping.

As much as I agree with your assessment of Mr Gibson, it should be kept in mind that Nationalism is not an excuse to hate the English.
If Scotland was to survive on her own she would need trade links with the rest of the UK.
Home rule is about controlling our country's assets and developing its culture.

@ Don - All I mean is it depresses me somewhat when I hear people say "Ah, I would vote for the Greens (or insert minor party of choice), but they're never going to get in so I went for Labour"

scotty wrote:It's a shit idea IMO, "if it aint broke don't fix it"

But is it? Not broke I mean.

I have mixed feelings about independence as said, but I do tend towards supporting it. I'm not nationalistic, and rarely even patriotic (put me up a hill in Glencoe and you might get a twinge of sentiment welling up inside, but that's more for nature itself than any particular nation)... I prefer the cities and people of England and Europe... but that's somewhat irrelevant.

I just see the effect on the national attitude and character of Scotland of being - well, a second class nation, in a way. Other countries are ruled from their own capital city, we are ruled from our neighbour's. It's not a true union or federation, where all nations are equal. Unionists might try to tell us that England needs Scotland and Scotland needs England, but the feeling I think we generally get is that it's us that need them. And that without we would struggle economically and simply in terms of international clout.

We're dependent, or we think we are. And I think that Scotland does behave and think like a guy who's had his balls cut off at times, and makes a lot of noise and bravado to try and compensate. We pretend we're confident but see our country as something of a failure. Just look at the attitude in the football.... "Ah, we lost to the Pharoe Islands, we're crap, haha - 'mon the Tartan Army!" We have that "plucky underdog" mentality, we always expect to be the brave losers subconciously. And I think that's an inevitable consequence to our national identity of being, in some sense at least, subjugated.

I fuckin HATE politics.

Anarchy for the UK!

Dark wrote: Yes. Do what's right for people, and for the love of god, avoid f**king.

Fixed.

As for the independance thingy:
As mentioned earlier, I think it´s a crap idea. For very practical reasons.
Independant nations need independant governments. Independant governments need people who work for them which costs money.
People make mistakes, which usually cost money.
If one makes a mistake a day, two will make two mistakes a day. So the greater the number of peeps you enable to f*ck things up, the more things will get f*cked up. Next point is: The smaller the structure is, the less money is needed to corrupt it. Thus I expect there will be more corruption.
And I can´t imagine that the structural problems of, let´s say Liverpool and Glasgow, differ substantially, so I don´t think that they will need different cures for the same disease.
In other words: I don´t think independance gives any effect except for increasing problems.
And for the term "Nation" itself: Bollox. What do I care any more for a Brandenburgian than I do care for my friend I gained through this forum abroad? I am ten times more interested in my Glasweegians, Belgians, Slava from Moscow, Sinny from Chicago, 9w9 and manymore of the mad bunch than I am interested in that porter from Donauwörth who called me "G´scherter Saupreis, g´scherter" (Crap-prussian). He was serious about it. Nationalist exclusion within my own coutnry? Thanks.
I don´t think it is my country. My country is a tiny fraction of the country.
I can see no logical reasons for national governments, and I surely have no sentiments to draw a line between me and any other person on this planet.
I´d be perfectly happy with a democratically organised system which has it´s central at Baghdad, New Delhi or the North Pole as long as my interests are taken care of. I can´t allways say that for "my" government. Actually, it´s way too often that I can´t.