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Eva
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Pista wrote:I have a slightly different look on this.
It's been tabled loads of times & I firmly believe that if everyone became a vegetarian (extreme, I know) then there would be no need to breed the animals in the first place, as there would be no value.
This would mean (worst case) species could become rare & even extinct as a result. (...)
First part of the theory is correct (no breeding). The consequences are the exact opposite though: Because we are eating meat and it has a value breeding tries to "improve" the animals and that's why ancient races that don't "deliver" as much milk/meat/etc. disappear.

Regarding the actual topic: I live with a veggie and therefore I don't eat much meat (my deliberate decision). Neither do miss it nor do I feel the urge to become a real veggie myself...
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Quiff Boy
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_emma_ wrote:Then again, your becoming a veggie won't change a thing. Animals shall still suffer and be killed.
i like to think i'm at least doing my bit to reduce the impact i have on the planet in that respect, and the suffering i cause to other living creatures.

and yeah, when i went vegan about 7+ years ago (straight from meat-eater - no veggie for me :lol:) i pretty soon started feeling a lot better - more energy, cleaner, lighter (if that makes sense) - and i also started noticing the taste of food... food stopped being about the tradition "meat + 2 veg" approach (where the whole dish is based on what the meat tastes like, and everything else on the plate is secondary) and became about there being a variety of different textures, colours & flavours in the meal 8)
What’s the difference between a buffalo and a bison?
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True, about the taste.
One more question to people who love the taste of meat: have you ever tried it without any kind of spice / salt? :urff: It's not really the meat that you love but the spices. And I still maintain that you'd much prefer my well-spiced soya steaks to a non-well-spiced meat.
Then again, a good salami or carpacchio or serrano doesn't have an equivalent in the plants' world.
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Quiff Boy
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also, i personally prefer using different ingredients to simply replacing meat stuff with soya substitutes... (usually anyway. sometimes a linda maccartney deep-filled country pie is just what you need ;D )

it changes the way you think about food. you stop wondering what to replace the pork chop with, in ordet to have your sunday lunch, and start looking at what kind of dishes you can make instead - roasts, stews, etc

jo's a much better cook than me (she's been vegetarian for about 20 years now :lol:) and she loves the recipes on this site -http://vegweb.com/index.php?action=recipes
What’s the difference between a buffalo and a bison?
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markfiend wrote: Um. Not really sure where I'm going with this :lol:
We may not have long, sharp teeth, but that doesn't mean we can't eat meat. :wink:
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Badlander
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_emma_ wrote: One more question to people who love the taste of meat: have you ever tried it without any kind of spice / salt? :urff: It's not really the meat that you love but the spices. And I still maintain that you'd much prefer my well-spiced soya steaks to a non-well-spiced meat.
Yes and no and I doubt it.
Organic meat is awesome, even without spices or mustard. Unfortunately, it's also very expensive. :urff:
And ordinary vegetables without any kind of seasoning aren't particularly appealing either. :innocent:
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Tomatoes are rather nice *shrug* :P
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They don't Half taste loverly them Animals :innocent:
Being brave is coming home at 2am half drunk, smelling of perfume, climbing into bed, slapping the wife on the arse and saying,"right fatty, you're next!!"
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Eva
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Quiff Boy wrote: jo's a much better cook than me (she's been vegetarian for about 20 years now :lol:) and she loves the recipes on this site -http://vegweb.com/index.php?action=recipes
Thanks a lot for the link! :notworthy:

Eggi (who insists on me telling you that he's been a veggie since 1994) and I mostly base our cooking (besides pasta - which I do entirely by intuition) on 3 german veggie/vegan books called "Ox-Kochbuch" (Part I, II, III) - vegetarian and vegan recipes not only for Punks. And these three originate from the recipe pages of a german punk/hardcore magazine called "Ox-Magazin". Advantage for me: They're dead simple and they proove, that you don't need to "replace" the meat part of a dish, but instead start thinking differently of dishes. Seems similar to your point for me, and that's exactly it: One doesn't need meat or a replacement for a complete dish, although there are quite a few delicious dishes containing tofu.... :D The advantage for Eggi: They're written in a kind of slang that makes perfect sense for him, like "add a few mushrooms if you have any", whereas I prefer to be told exactly wether they want 4 or 5 mushrooms. But that's a totally different story..... ;D

Anyway, I've found it very difficult to find useful veggie recipes, because most of them just offer design-like dishes that you spend hours for in the kitchen and therefore are totally useless at the end of a long hard day after work. These 3 books were my last hope (found them on Amazon) and they now are our bible... :wink:
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Mrs RicheyJames wrote:
Petseri wrote:@MrsRJ: do you wear leather?
Yes and atm I still eat meat!!

one step at a time please eh?
now it's dinner time (i'm GMT+2)
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is it meat? they are animals and i'm an assassin :twisted:
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Brideoffrankenstein
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I regularly have a debate with myself about whether or not to go back to being a veggie, I don't eat a great deal of meal really and could live without it quite happily but then I want the option there if I want to eat it. However I ate some chicken the other day and I didn't really enjoy it, all I could think was "What's actually in this?!"

I still eat fish though which I love (and things like mussels etc)
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Once you've killed your own dinner once, you're more or less cool with it forever. Hence the reason I'm not veggie.

Then again, I was only a kid when I started helping out killing chickens for dinner and at that age you just don't question it. *shrug*
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I've tried to go veggie a couple of times but its so bloody boring.The only vegetables that actually taste nice are chips and roast taters.
The way abatoirs work is totally barbaric, I've had a couple of mates who have worked in them and both are veggies, which says it all really.I've heard what goes on and it ain't nice.
But when you pick up your pre-packed sunday joint it just doesn't register that it was once a living, breathing creature.I could never kill for my dinner which makes me a dreadful hypocrit.Sorry.
I console myself by only eating animals I don't like-cows and chickens are horrible bastards but sweet likkle lambs--NO!!
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Likewise my little sister isn't a veggie but she doesn't eat rabbits because she finds them much too cute. :lol:
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I turned veggie at about age twelve until my late twenties, all in I was a veggie for about 16 odd years since then I seem to go through phases of meat eating but still only rarely (specially the red stuff n pigs too). I think at some point I decided to stop living in a state of refusal about things in general, embrace new things a bit.
The meat production industry isnt going to go away and I think there is little point in beating yourself up about eating meat without applying the same level of rigorous reductionist thought to other aspects of your existence within our over consuming contaminated city dwelling lives.

Although I still struggle with it occasionally :roll:
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Eva
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Another, but related question (no thread-derailment intended): what about fish? I love fish, shrimps, mussels and the like. But what is the morally cleaner choice: cultured seafood or wild catch? I mean: buying caught fish means I'm supporting the emptying of the seas. Buying cultured seafood means I eat antibiotics, hormones and support the narrow cages etc.... :urff:
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Eva wrote:Buying cultured seafood means I eat antibiotics, hormones and support the narrow cages etc.... :urff:
Not necessarily, not if you pick organic (hippy scum ;D) fish farms only. Same goes for all animals, for that matter. But then again, it's much more pricey and not everyone can afford it. :?
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d00mw0lf wrote:Once you've killed your own dinner once, you're more or less cool with it forever. Hence the reason I'm not veggie.
Turn that one around; I don't think I could kill for my dinner (although I've never been forced into a situation where I've had no choice...) so I'm not comfortable having other people do it for me.
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itnAklipse wrote: i tried to appear levelheaded but i'm a fanatic and levelheadedness is not in my interests.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :notworthy:

THAT is the quote of the entire topic so far.

ON topic, do what thou wilt is the whole of the law.
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I suppose any animal could eat meat if it was cooked, salted, and then spiced and dressed in a manner designed to appeal.
Can't get out of my mind the notion that we would be able to eat raw meat, and eat it without a sharp knife and fork, which are little more than prosthetic fang and claw, and digest it within hours if that was what we were meant to do. The notion that we need the concentrated energy and protein that meat provides an animal when we have no predators to outrun, dont have to catch running food, nor store energy for a long period of possible starvation doesn't make sense. It may have been needed in the past, it's not justified now.
As for not being a preachy vegetarian..I met a lot of preachy anti-hunt people. I think slaughtering animals for food when it's not necessary is every bit as cruel as hunting for vermin-control/tradition.
Finally, if you consider the amount of grain needed to feed one cow could feed about twenty people, if we turned vegetarian worldwide, those food shortages would be nearly eradicated.
I'd be interested to hear any arguements against vegetarianism apart from liking the taste and that no-one would bother keeping pigs anymore.
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Badlander wrote:Likewise my little sister isn't a veggie but she doesn't eat rabbits because she finds them much too cute. :lol:
Rabbits are fcuking lovely.
BBQ'd with bacon laid all over them....yummy (just mind your teeth on the bullets)
& in any case, then ones you eat are hooning great big beasties & not the little fluffy things kids tease. :wink:
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Quiff Boy
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tbh, for anyone considering going veggie who is then getting tangled up in the 'wearing leather' or 'eating fish' debate, i'd say this:

ignore the labels. chose your own path. its your body - think about what you are putting into it and why. and if you're happy with what you have chosen, good for you. if not, do something about it. just dont get hung up on labels and the specifics. otherwise you'll never do anything, because you will have convinced yourself that you cant do everything.

find your balance, and what 'fits' with your health, your conscience and your lifestyle.

life shouldnt be hard, or unhappy, or a constant battle with your conscience, so find whatever 'mix and match' bits work for you... personally, i found that the longer i 'did' the vegan thing, the more i learned about it, and adjusted parts of my lilfestyle accordingly. its a process that's still going on now :)
What’s the difference between a buffalo and a bison?
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DeWinter wrote: Can't get out of my mind the notion that we would be able to eat raw meat, and eat it without a sharp knife and fork, which are little more than prosthetic fang and claw, and digest it within hours if that was what we were meant to do. The notion that we need the concentrated energy and protein that meat provides an animal when we have no predators to outrun, dont have to catch running food, nor store energy for a long period of possible starvation doesn't make sense. It may have been needed in the past, it's not justified now.
You're missing the point : humans don't have long sharp teeth and claws any more because we don't need them. It's just evolution : we developed hunting and cooking techniques which were so efficient that there was no need for natural weapons any more. The human body changed accordingly. I guess if you lead a very sedentary life, then you can get away without meat. But I'm a sports guy and I need my dose of proteins, otherwise my whole body will just fall apart. And eating meat (cheese, milk, etc.) is still the best way to get those proteins. I do agree that vegetarianism can be good for your health to some extent, but I also know that veggies generally aren't very sharp. They may be fit but they're not sharp.
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My sister's husband is veggie i'm not....he feels good and i the same
....it's not important what you eat most important is how do you feel
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_emma_ wrote:True, about the taste.
One more question to people who love the taste of meat: have you ever tried it without any kind of spice / salt? :urff: It's not really the meat that you love but the spices. And I still maintain that you'd much prefer my well-spiced soya steaks to a non-well-spiced meat.
Then again, a good salami or carpacchio or serrano doesn't have an equivalent in the plants' world.
Sorry but that's utter bollocks.

It's called cooking well.

I salt nothing now as Malachi eats what we eat and as for spices...WTF? Teaspoon of well cooked unadulterated plain meat = mmmmmmmmm. Teaspoon of spices = WTF?

Meat DOES taste nice. Sad but true.
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