Of course, Aquinas actually argued that such practices were a violation of the natural law (in a very Lockean sense, actually, i.e., they violated the natural rights of the parents over their children, and were thus sinful). Also, in Catholic dogma, the sacraments can only be legitimately conferred by a priest owing to the doctrine of apostolic succession (tracing ordination all the way back to Peter)--thus they're legitimate from Catholic and Orthodox clergymen (and maybe Anglican?), but not from someone who simply takes it upon themselves to do it.markfiend wrote: You know that in the view of the Catholic Church that makes you a Catholic?
There was a case back in the 1800s (I think) where a Jewish family had a Catholic child-minder, she "baptised" their baby like that. The priests had the child taken away from her parents because "we can't have a Catholic child brought up by Jewish parents." O_o
Religious Beliefs
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sultan2075
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Last edited by sultan2075 on 15 Aug 2007, 15:59, edited 1 time in total.
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The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
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silentNate
- Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
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BlasphemyJames Blast wrote:Apple Computer Inc.
You obviously worship at the altar of more money than sense
I had a face on the mirror
I had a hand on the gun
I had a place in the sun and a ticket to Syria
I had a hand on the gun
I had a place in the sun and a ticket to Syria
@ MarkFiend & Sultan2075:
Your points remind me of certain discussions in "Il Nome Della Rosa" by Umberto Eco
On a more serious note: Somehow I regret never having attended any lessons in religion (how do you call that in English: Sunday School?), because I think that the Christian religion still has a strong impact as a background to "common" western culture. And I don't know anything about it. Never read the bible let alone discussed its content. Seems to me I'm lacking a certain common knowledge, yet I don't care enough to actually read the bible my mum gave me some years ago...
Your points remind me of certain discussions in "Il Nome Della Rosa" by Umberto Eco
On a more serious note: Somehow I regret never having attended any lessons in religion (how do you call that in English: Sunday School?), because I think that the Christian religion still has a strong impact as a background to "common" western culture. And I don't know anything about it. Never read the bible let alone discussed its content. Seems to me I'm lacking a certain common knowledge, yet I don't care enough to actually read the bible my mum gave me some years ago...
Last edited by Eva on 15 Aug 2007, 18:54, edited 1 time in total.
You can't fix stupid.
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markfiend
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I love Umberto Eco. (Only ever read him in English translation though.)
I know what you mean about the cultural aspects; even on the silly level of "Judas Left The Sisters": without any knowledge of Christian tradition, that would just be meaningless.
I know what you mean about the cultural aspects; even on the silly level of "Judas Left The Sisters": without any knowledge of Christian tradition, that would just be meaningless.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
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emilystrange
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read it. it's not a bad story. i like 'revelations'
I don't wanna live like I don't mind
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James Blast
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you should try the 12" mixmarkfiend wrote:It gets a bit boring with all the begats...
"And when you start to think about death, you start to think about what's after it. And then you start hoping there is a God. For me, it's a frightening thought to go nowhere".
~ Peter Steele
~ Peter Steele
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boudicca
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If you're going to quote from the book of Revelation,emilystrange wrote:read it. it's not a bad story. i like 'revelations'
Don't keep calling it the book of Revelations,
There's no S! It's the book of Revelation!
As revealed to St. John The Divine.
See also Mary Hopkin,
She must despair!
There's a man with a mullet going mad with a mallet in Millets
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boudicca
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The singer from Slipknot went to Rome to see the Pope...Motz wrote:
Nigel for Pope
Knew you'd get it Mike
There's a man with a mullet going mad with a mallet in Millets
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James Blast
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this Mary Hopkin?
Jeez her 'hit' used to depress the hell outta me as a kid
Jeez her 'hit' used to depress the hell outta me as a kid
"And when you start to think about death, you start to think about what's after it. And then you start hoping there is a God. For me, it's a frightening thought to go nowhere".
~ Peter Steele
~ Peter Steele
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sultan2075
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Aye, I first read it (in English) at 15, quickly followed up by Foucault's Pendulum--which, I might add, is a book that got much, much funnier as I continued to study philosophy in grad school. And, yes, I agree with you about the cultural aspects. The lack of awareness of a common culture is very frustrating when I have to teach undergrads. The only thing they have in common is the most vapid forms of entertainment and an attention span to match. It's depressing.Eva wrote:@ MarkFiend & Sultan2075:
Your arguments reminds me of certain discussions in "Il Nome Della Rosa" by Umberto Eco
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The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
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Izzy HaveMercy
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I was a Practicing Satanist up till my 17 or so, then I got a real life
I have to say, I am still fond of paganism/shamanism/esoteric stuff, but more because of the historical or social value.
Quite an Izzyist now.
IZ.
I have to say, I am still fond of paganism/shamanism/esoteric stuff, but more because of the historical or social value.
Quite an Izzyist now.
IZ.
@ MarkFiend and Sultan2075
I read it in German. Although I'm half Italian and do speak it quite fluently I'd never ever dare to read Eco in Italian. But it's one of the few books I can read again and again and again, each time spotting something that has elapsed me before.
The best quote ever for me is Jorge explaining why he has poisoned the book (Aristoteles' second book, the one on laughter). Please excuse my bad translation from memory: "It makes people laugh, and laughter takes away fear. But people who don't fear have no need for religion."
I respect any religious belief, as long as it doesn't put itself above other beliefs. Personal experience and what I've witnessed on other people has lead me to think that besides family background it often is crisis (fear, dispair or complete lack of hope) that leads people to take up a religious belief. And that's what I respect religion for: The ability to give people hope. Any kind of church on the other hand is a completely different story for me. I think churches are more concerned with gaining and keeping power than with giving people anything useful.
I read it in German. Although I'm half Italian and do speak it quite fluently I'd never ever dare to read Eco in Italian. But it's one of the few books I can read again and again and again, each time spotting something that has elapsed me before.
The best quote ever for me is Jorge explaining why he has poisoned the book (Aristoteles' second book, the one on laughter). Please excuse my bad translation from memory: "It makes people laugh, and laughter takes away fear. But people who don't fear have no need for religion."
I respect any religious belief, as long as it doesn't put itself above other beliefs. Personal experience and what I've witnessed on other people has lead me to think that besides family background it often is crisis (fear, dispair or complete lack of hope) that leads people to take up a religious belief. And that's what I respect religion for: The ability to give people hope. Any kind of church on the other hand is a completely different story for me. I think churches are more concerned with gaining and keeping power than with giving people anything useful.
You can't fix stupid.
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lazarus corporation
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confirmed atheist here
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Brideoffrankenstein
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Not really sure, but I have Pagan sympathies though I wouldn't call myself one
Hmm, I'd like to believe that there was some way we continue after death other than in the fading memories of family and friends, however, I have not seen any evidence of this. Alternatively social and cultural life seems a little pointless if after reading all those books and amassing all that knowledge we just rot and turn to dust. Let's just say that I'm a hopeful don't know.
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James Blast
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... can't we all just get on...? 
"And when you start to think about death, you start to think about what's after it. And then you start hoping there is a God. For me, it's a frightening thought to go nowhere".
~ Peter Steele
~ Peter Steele
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6FeetOver
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I don't really believe in much of anything. I'm an atheist, but I adore the "trappings" of religion. Walked around quite a few lovely medieval churches whilst on my holibobs, and even lit a candle in my mom's memory in "Shakespeare's Church" (Holy Trinity) in Stratford-Upon-Avon last week... *Shrug*
I left my heart in Ballycastle... 
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canon docre
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Militant Atheist over here. I can't respect any religion/religious beliefs. Religions like Christianity and Islam are plainly evil and "feel-good" religions like Buddhism are as meaningless as any other esoteric rubbish.
Religious belief is simply a way to avoid own thinking IMHO.
Religious belief is simply a way to avoid own thinking IMHO.
Put their heads on f*cking pikes in front of the venue for all I care.
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sarah_orange
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despite being confirmed (I spent 10 years in a church choir - like sinny I love the trappings of religion) I passed through wicca in the second half of the 80s (before the new age crystal nonsense ruined it for everyone) and would now describe myself as a militant atheist
perhaps a subset, pagan atheism, could be invented for me - observing the seasons in a god(ess)less fashion.
perhaps a subset, pagan atheism, could be invented for me - observing the seasons in a god(ess)less fashion.
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markfiend
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new age pronounced to rhyme with sewagesarah_orange wrote:(before the new age crystal nonsense ruined it for everyone)
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell