Heartland

markfiend wrote: You know that in the view of the Catholic Church that makes you a Catholic?

There was a case back in the 1800s (I think) where a Jewish family had a Catholic child-minder, she "baptised" their baby like that. The priests had the child taken away from her parents because "we can't have a Catholic child brought up by Jewish parents." O_o

Of course, Aquinas actually argued that such practices were a violation of the natural law (in a very Lockean sense, actually, i.e., they violated the natural rights of the parents over their children, and were thus sinful). Also, in Catholic dogma, the sacraments can only be legitimately conferred by a priest owing to the doctrine of apostolic succession (tracing ordination all the way back to Peter)--thus they're legitimate from Catholic and Orthodox clergymen (and maybe Anglican?), but not from someone who simply takes it upon themselves to do it.

James Blast wrote:Apple Computer Inc.

Blasphemy

You obviously worship at the altar of more money than sense

@ MarkFiend & Sultan2075:

Your points remind me of certain discussions in "Il Nome Della Rosa" by Umberto Eco

On a more serious note: Somehow I regret never having attended any lessons in religion (how do you call that in English: Sunday School?), because I think that the Christian religion still has a strong impact as a background to "common" western culture. And I don't know anything about it. Never read the bible let alone discussed its content. Seems to me I'm lacking a certain common knowledge, yet I don't care enough to actually read the bible my mum gave me some years ago...

I love Umberto Eco. (Only ever read him in English translation though.)

I know what you mean about the cultural aspects; even on the silly level of "Judas Left The Sisters": without any knowledge of Christian tradition, that would just be meaningless.

read it. it's not a bad story. i like 'revelations'

It gets a bit boring with all the begats...

markfiend wrote:It gets a bit boring with all the begats...

you should try the 12" mix

emilystrange wrote:read it. it's not a bad story. i like 'revelations'

If you're going to quote from the book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the book of Revelations,
There's no S! It's the book of Revelation!
As revealed to St. John The Divine.
See also Mary Hopkin,
She must despair!

:lol::notworthy::lol::notworthy:

Nigel for Pope

Motz wrote::lol::notworthy::lol::notworthy:

Nigel for Pope

The singer from Slipknot went to Rome to see the Pope...

Knew you'd get it Mike

this Mary Hopkin?



Jeez her 'hit' used to depress the hell outta me as a kid

Eva wrote:@ MarkFiend & Sultan2075:

Your arguments reminds me of certain discussions in "Il Nome Della Rosa" by Umberto Eco

Aye, I first read it (in English) at 15, quickly followed up by Foucault's Pendulum--which, I might add, is a book that got much, much funnier as I continued to study philosophy in grad school. And, yes, I agree with you about the cultural aspects. The lack of awareness of a common culture is very frustrating when I have to teach undergrads. The only thing they have in common is the most vapid forms of entertainment and an attention span to match. It's depressing.

I was a Practicing Satanist up till my 17 or so, then I got a real life

I have to say, I am still fond of paganism/shamanism/esoteric stuff, but more because of the historical or social value.

Quite an Izzyist now.

IZ.

My sympathies generally lie with the ol' Spinozan Pantheism as well, also got a lot of time for pagan beliefs.

@ MarkFiend and Sultan2075
I read it in German. Although I'm half Italian and do speak it quite fluently I'd never ever dare to read Eco in Italian. But it's one of the few books I can read again and again and again, each time spotting something that has elapsed me before.
The best quote ever for me is Jorge explaining why he has poisoned the book (Aristoteles' second book, the one on laughter). Please excuse my bad translation from memory: "It makes people laugh, and laughter takes away fear. But people who don't fear have no need for religion."

I respect any religious belief, as long as it doesn't put itself above other beliefs. Personal experience and what I've witnessed on other people has lead me to think that besides family background it often is crisis (fear, dispair or complete lack of hope) that leads people to take up a religious belief. And that's what I respect religion for: The ability to give people hope. Any kind of church on the other hand is a completely different story for me. I think churches are more concerned with gaining and keeping power than with giving people anything useful.

confirmed atheist here

Not really sure, but I have Pagan sympathies though I wouldn't call myself one

Hmm, I'd like to believe that there was some way we continue after death other than in the fading memories of family and friends, however, I have not seen any evidence of this. Alternatively social and cultural life seems a little pointless if after reading all those books and amassing all that knowledge we just rot and turn to dust. Let's just say that I'm a hopeful don't know.

... can't we all just get on...?

James Blast wrote:... can't we all just get on...?

Yep.

I don't really believe in much of anything. I'm an atheist, but I adore the "trappings" of religion. Walked around quite a few lovely medieval churches whilst on my holibobs, and even lit a candle in my mom's memory in "Shakespeare's Church" (Holy Trinity) in Stratford-Upon-Avon last week... *Shrug*

Militant Atheist over here. I can't respect any religion/religious beliefs. Religions like Christianity and Islam are plainly evil and "feel-good" religions like Buddhism are as meaningless as any other esoteric rubbish.
Religious belief is simply a way to avoid own thinking IMHO.

despite being confirmed (I spent 10 years in a church choir - like sinny I love the trappings of religion) I passed through wicca in the second half of the 80s (before the new age crystal nonsense ruined it for everyone) and would now describe myself as a militant atheist

perhaps a subset, pagan atheism, could be invented for me - observing the seasons in a god(ess)less fashion.

sarah_orange wrote:(before the new age crystal nonsense ruined it for everyone)

new age pronounced to rhyme with sewage

James Blast wrote:... can't we all just get on...?

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)


I'll be scared if anyone gets that...