Heartland

paul wrote:

James Blast wrote:'Goth' is a matter of age, it seems...

Nope, as I said before, a matter of "feeling"

excuse me, I meant "Trad Goth"

paul wrote:The Goth movement might be dead...

The Goth scene is still undead!!!
infact I would argue that since it became an underground movement
(in the early 90s) it has gained a stronger identity
and more independent infrostructure.

Blasty:
[/quote]excuse me, I meant "Trad Goth" [/quote]

Oh yes - trad goth indeed. No ghastly EMO or dreadful pink-haired, label wearing nonsense here... when I think goth I think 1987-91. Cheap, tastefully outrageous and with a sense of elegent aesthetic (for under a fiver).

and if I close my eyes.... it still is 1987-91 Perhaps I just can't let go???

1987!!!???

Um... yep - I was only 13....
Soz Blasty!

29

I'm jealous - that would have been the perfect age!!!
I had a cousin back then who was about 20ish and she took me clubbing when I was a young'n. I was so jealous of her!!!

paul wrote:
some people can be really persistent in their denial.

edit: the whole thing isn't a silly argument, we call it the truth

So I take it then that you can tell me what quality it is that makes the Sisters goth while Motorhead, the VU, and the Doors are not? Your list was Black coats, sunnglasses, graveyard photoshoots, dark and melancholic music, strobelights ... so what's the defining factor?

The first time I heard Temple Of Love was while my 2 mates were applying their mascara for goth night down the local nightspot I was transfixed from the opening few bars until the end. It was a turning point in my life musically but not in any other respect.

I never was and never have been outwardly a goff. But I started listening to The Cure, The Bunnymen, The Cult, Cocteau Twins but image was never an issue to me.

Yes black is my favourite colour and yes I'm a miserable bastard but to me it was never about goff - It was just about the majesty that started with that shiny, bombastic glory that was TOL and onto the Reptile House and Alice..... and became a lifelong love.

Yes, I could see the funny side of prancing around covered in baby lotion. How could you fail to? But it doesn't matter what you call it - one mans goff is another mans techno.

sultan2075 wrote:

paul wrote:
some people can be really persistent in their denial.

edit: the whole thing isn't a silly argument, we call it the truth

So I take it then that you can tell me what quality it is that makes the Sisters goth while Motorhead, the VU, and the Doors are not? Your list was Black coats, sunnglasses, graveyard photoshoots, dark and melancholic music, strobelights ... so what's the defining factor?

There's no defining factor, but these qualities combined make it goth IMHO ...

Hom_Corleone wrote: one mans goff is another mans techno.

paul wrote:

sultan2075 wrote:

paul wrote:
some people can be really persistent in their denial.

edit: the whole thing isn't a silly argument, we call it the truth

So I take it then that you can tell me what quality it is that makes the Sisters goth while Motorhead, the VU, and the Doors are not? Your list was Black coats, sunnglasses, graveyard photoshoots, dark and melancholic music, strobelights ... so what's the defining factor?

There's no defining factor, but these qualities combined make it goth IMHO ...

But somehow a great many of the other bands that have all of these qualities aren't? That makes no sense.

"Goth" is just a label created by the industry to increase demand.

nowayjose wrote:"Goth" is just a label created by the industry to increase demand.

I don't agree! "Goth" was there before the industry discovered it! Ofcourse the industry wanted to make money out of it as soon as they noticed there was a market.

paul wrote:

nowayjose wrote:"Goth" is just a label created by the industry to increase demand.

I don't agree! "Goth" was there before the industry discovered it! Ofcourse the industry wanted to make money out of it as soon as they noticed there was a market.

One thing I will say in the defence of "goth", it took a lot longer to become commercialised than some other counter-cultures.

I believe that Goth in it´s total has changed trough the years. And yes, there was a lot of influence from the music industry which wanted to enter the market.

But it moved to a ridicoulus status. ....just see some "nice" people on strange festivals... " Ihr seid hübsch....sehr hübsch...."

That´s a reason cause i believe in former times the sisters were a kind of goth...and they aren´t no part of the actual gothmovement.

Josch wrote:I believe that Goth in it´s total has changed trough the years. And yes, there was a lot of influence from the music industry which wanted to enter the market.

I agree on that. Goth hasn't changed that much. It's the music that changed and goth has become mainstream because of bands like Within Temptation etc. In the Netherlands this goth/metal scene is really big nowadays and WT has been our biggest music export pruduct for four years in a row.

Ah the old goff discussion....

I never thought it was important what they were labeled but I have to agree that during the 84 to 90 period, espially after watching the "Walk Away" vid , they look pretty goff. From VT on.....I guess not. Nowadays; certainly not.

paul wrote:

sultan2075 wrote:Goth? The girls are a little too smart for that. Plus they don't wax romantic about vampires and associated nonsense, thank goodness.

C'm on, the sisters were goth from 'till '85. I can't believe some people are still in denial about this. Black coats, sunnglasses, graveyard photoshoots, dark and melancholic music, strobelights ... you want me to continue?

Nowadays they're too smart to let themselves being labeled, but not in those early days ...

They could've been Black Metal, y' know?

AH, bollox! To me, they are still New Wave, just like the Cure, Siouxsie, The Neff, Grauzone, The Neon Judgement and a gazillion others, and that's the end of it!


IZ.

How about darkwave?

paul wrote:How about darkwave?

That's just Goth for old people. New Wave is old goff for old people that still feel young.

IZ.

I love the idea of Goth for Old People.

When I am ancient and in a nursing home in years to come.... my word, I'll make those oldies love it!!! We'll all have special iPod hearing aides by then. hee hee

I love the idea of Goth for Old People.

When I am ancient and in a nursing home in years to come.... my word, I'll make those oldies love it!!! We'll all have special iPod hearing aides by then. hee hee

paul wrote:How about darkwave?

I've always found it more meaningful and more straightforward than "goth". Just new wave turned dark. Simple.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:New Wave is old goff for old people that still feel young.

... but look old