Heartland

canon docre wrote:I certainly do. Sadly, science found out recently, that paedophilia is incurable.

Highly debatable. I am always extremely skeptical of claims that a mental condition is "incurable". How exactly did science come to this (quite monumental) conclusion? As far as I'm aware (and I do try to keep abreast of the latest advances in psychology and all related fields), it hasn't.

Granted, for the time being and the forseeable future, I think it is very unlikely that paedophilia can be reversed ("cured" is a misleading term, denoting a physical illness here, I think), but in theory I think it could be possible. There has been a lot of promising work done with young offenders, in their late teens and so on, who are starting to behave inappropriately towards young children, that their cognitive and behavioural habits can be restructured, to some extent at least.

boudicca wrote:I don't mean have their crimes belittled and give them a pat on the head, I mean that we should try to get to the root of their psychological disturbance and resulting abberant behaviour. Don't you ever wonder why, what the hell has gone awry in the mind of a person like that? I certainly do.

Yes I do, although the explanations offered usually sound oversimplistic and difficult to accept. Personally, for sadistic or sexual crimes, "I just felt like it" makes perfect sense to me, although it doesn't explain the premeditation or why somebody gets off on such stuff in the first place. I dunno!

markfiend wrote:Can we spell witch-hunt boys and girls?

witch-hunt~ you boys go catch him and gag him....

...I'll set fire to warm the weapons to cut off his man-parts that we can burn in the fire to the gods of hope "this proves a point that this is an evil man" chant can begin....

...I don't mind chopping off his googlies in a slow manner that would lead to death...

...even on stage if that tickles your fancy!



skullfuckhim!

Andrew S wrote:

boudicca wrote:But to express disgust for a convicted child abuser - convicted by genuine evidence and not merely hysteria and falsehood - is in my view a seperate thing entirely.

I wouldn't advocate we make a monster of this man - he is a man, he is human... but what he has done is still beyond despicable.

What he has done certainly disgusts me, however I feel no desire to form a lynch mob and I don't get any satisfaction from the thought of reprisals like some people seem to. Maybe it's no more than an expression of disgust, but for me, these angry gut reactions make uncomfortable reading.

Off with the goolies etc. etc. etc.

My thoughts exactly. Maybe 'witch-hunt' was the wrong word, fair enough. But IMO vigilante justice is a cure worse than the disease.

Nothing strikes the irony of life.
I admit, that one gave me a good laugh.

canon docre wrote:
I certainly do too. Sadly, science found out recently, that paedophilia is incurable.

P.S. I saw him live once. His support was Girlschool. What a bad joke.

Oh the irony.

But in all seriousness...isn't it like seeing a pretty girl in the street and wanting to shag her? It doesn't mean I'm going to.
They know it's wrong so surely there must be an element of self control involved? Presumably there a thousands of people who find underage girls/boys attractive? They just don't act upon it.

Well if you google 'barely legal teen' I'm sure you'd get more than just one or two hits. Having said that there's a difference between ephebophilia (attraction to people who are just about postpubescent) and outright paedophilia (attraction to prepubescent children).

The thing with sexual morality is that there are all sorts of practices that are unexamined cultural constructs. I'm sure the ancient Greeks would have a far different view of things than we do (although GGlitter would probably disgust them too as his preference seems to be little girls, not boys.)

Virtually any sexual practice has been utterly forbidden in some cultures while being compulsory in others.

Of course having said that, the unequal power structure in a sexual relationship between an adult and a child is a recipe for disaster. Then again, historically, given our patriarchal societal structure, you could fairly recently have said the same thing about a sexual relationship between a man and a woman.

You hit upon something very important there, Hom... I think we make a mistake in lumping all sexual offenders (against minors) together.

Firstly, there is the paraphilia of paedophilia, which simply means that a person does (for reasons we could speculate on all day, ranging from Pavlovian ideas of fetishes to having been abused themselves - I suspect it can be any number of things) have sexual urges involving children. They may not act on it, they may be ashamed. Or they may act on it and feel intense guilt as a result.

Secondly, there is the factor of either sadistic or narcissistic personality disorders, which not all paedophiles meet the criteria for, but some do. I think this could be of particular importance in cases of incest. Of a study that was done recently on people who had committed incest on their own children, only about 1/4 were actually more aroused by images of children than by images of adults. This could suggest that there is something else at work, something else they "enjoy" other than simply children. They may enjoy inflicting suffering, they may take pleasure in the fact that they are engaging in a sexual act with, essentially, a part of themselves. A kind of De Sade-esque joy in stepping outside the all moral boundaries of humanity.

Then there are the sad men who go for girls who are 14 or 15, post-pubescent, just not yet "legal". The attraction here is their innocence and lack of experience, and the majority of them are probably hopelessly inadequate bastards and, in the back of their mind, they know it.

My rather rambling point is just that it's a very complex area, and one which needs a whole lot more investigation. I have a cheek to say that though as I'd hate to be the one doing the investigating - the whole thing just makes my blood run cold

No...Marilyn Manson is sad really...when a band needs a deaf girl packed with beef to get banged by the whole band that is sad!

Paedophilia ~ indeed a sickness that is a very sad one. I believe however that these people who can't get over this illness to be jetted into outer space please....how on earth can children be safe with that lot walking around in crowds?

Yes, at the risk of sounding more softly-softly than I feel - I tend to think that people should be locked up until they are no longer any risk to children... which in the majority of cases would probably mean forever. And in cases of incest and abuse of very young children, even if they had a road to Damascus moment and became saints, I would still want to see them punished (and so would they if they'd really changed).

boudicca wrote:

canon docre wrote:I certainly do. Sadly, science found out recently, that paedophilia is incurable.

Highly debatable. I am always extremely skeptical of claims that a mental condition is "incurable". How exactly did science come to this (quite monumental) conclusion? As far as I'm aware (and I do try to keep abreast of the latest advances in psychology and all related fields), it hasn't.

Granted, for the time being and the forseeable future, I think it is very unlikely that paedophilia can be reversed ("cured" is a misleading term, denoting a physical illness here, I think), but in theory I think it could be possible. There has been a lot of promising work done with young offenders, in their late teens and so on, who are starting to behave inappropriately towards young children, that their cognitive and behavioural habits can be restructured, to some extent at least.

I excuse myself for my vastly generalising comment. Of course, "paedophilia" is not a disease and therefore the term "curable" or "incurable" is inappropriate.
And even the term "science" was a rather thrown in vage summary of what we know as psychology or psychiatry.

I just didnt have the time for a lengthy psychological treatise on the subject.

canon docre wrote:I excuse myself for my vastly generalising comment. Of course, "paedophilia" is not a disease and therefore the term "curable" or "incurable" is inappropriate.
And even the term "science" was a rather thrown in vage summary of what we know as psychology or psychiatry.

I just didnt have the time for a lengthy psychological treatise on the subject.

Touche Fair enough Jess.

boudicca wrote:

canon docre wrote:I excuse myself for my vastly generalising comment. Of course, "paedophilia" is not a disease and therefore the term "curable" or "incurable" is inappropriate.
And even the term "science" was a rather thrown in vage summary of what we know as psychology or psychiatry.

I just didnt have the time for a lengthy psychological treatise on the subject.

Touche Fair enough Jess.

btw, I just love it when people on HL show their expertise by flexing some muscles. I'm just too slow with my psychiatric vocabulary translator.

Don't know how that was intended... If it was a dig - I'm not claiming to be an expert, psychology is just a field that interests me....

boudicca wrote: Don't know how that was intended... If it was a dig - I'm not claiming to be an expert, psychology is just a field that interests me....

I guess that rather was a dig at flexed muscles, not applied brains.

boudicca wrote: Don't know how that was intended... If it was a dig - I'm not claiming to be an expert, it's just a field that interests me... so I got a bit rambling and geeky.

no no, it was meant as it stands there. Intelligent input from (fill in voc that suits you better than expert, maye "interested people") on various topics is what I really like with HL. It's inspiring and gratifying. Like f.ex many posts of the Meerkat. Thats why I'm still coming back (sometimes).
It just sometimes bothers me to not be part of it, because of the language.

canon docre wrote:

boudicca wrote: Don't know how that was intended... If it was a dig - I'm not claiming to be an expert, it's just a field that interests me... so I got a bit rambling and geeky.

no no, it was meant as it stands there. Intelligent input from (fill in voc that suits you better than expert, maye "interested people") on various topics is what I really like with HL. It's inspiring and gratifying. Like f.ex many posts of the Meerkat. Thats why I'm still coming back (sometimes).
It just sometimes bothers me to not be part of it, because of the language.

Likewise. I likes Heartland for that....and for your info...you're English is better than mine.

canon docre wrote:

boudicca wrote: Don't know how that was intended... If it was a dig - I'm not claiming to be an expert, it's just a field that interests me... so I got a bit rambling and geeky.

no no, it was meant as it stands there. Intelligent input from (fill in voc that suits you better than expert, maye "interested people") on various topics is what I really like with HL. It's inspiring and gratifying. Like f.ex many posts of the Meerkat. Thats why I'm still coming back (sometimes).
It just sometimes bothers me to not be part of it, because of the language.

Phew! That's a relief... I respect your opinion a great deal Jess, and I certainly didn't want to come off like a know-it-all there, full of half-baked opinions And my ideas on this particular topic are really pretty half-baked...

You're damn right, there are some peeps on here who you can have a really good "discussion" with... good to know the likes of Mr Meerkat there

canon docre wrote:And even the term "science" was a rather thrown in vage summary of what we know as psychology or psychiatry.

pedantic nit-picking point: Psychology is a science (properly called Psychological Science or Behavioural Science). Psychiatry, on the other hand...

Hom_Corleone wrote:

canon docre wrote:

boudicca wrote: Don't know how that was intended... If it was a dig - I'm not claiming to be an expert, it's just a field that interests me... so I got a bit rambling and geeky.

no no, it was meant as it stands there. Intelligent input from (fill in voc that suits you better than expert, maye "interested people") on various topics is what I really like with HL. It's inspiring and gratifying. Like f.ex many posts of the Meerkat. Thats why I'm still coming back (sometimes).
It just sometimes bothers me to not be part of it, because of the language.

Likewise. I likes Heartland for that....and for your info...you're English is better than mine.

...but it takes me fecking hours to compose my posts.

@Boudicca. Now when I read my initial post, it could really sound like a wry kind of dig. But only for english ears. I'm German and therefore much more straightforeward.

I didn't see it as a dig at all

Me neither, it came across as a definite compliment here in fact.

What can I say, I'm just paranoid. Look that up in your psycho-dictionary Just my own awareness that I am on the fringes of my knowledge on this one really ...

I have 2 boys, feel free to discuss in a very thought provoking manner (you are by the way) but I'd have him shot.
Simple.As.That.

weebleswobble wrote:I have 2 boys, feel free to discuss in a very thought provoking manner (you are by the way) but I'd have him shot.
Simple.As.That.

...I think you know where I stand, mucker