Heartland

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:Then they probably patent it and claim it for their own as they did several times in the past *shrug*.

..as said above, there's not much money in homeopathy, as just about everybody can mix the stuff together at home. Patents are futile here.
Lack of prospects for profit might be the reason for lack of interest.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:The main point is, while Science is always busy to hunt after facts and proof, they completely fail to see that there MIGHT be solace in the power of the mind. The term 'just accept it bastards' will just not suffice

I saw a TV broadcast of a lecture by an imunologist a few years ago who said that one may consider the imune system a liquid part of the brain, as there's such a close connection between imune system and brain.
The brain is an organ that converts information into neurological structures and creates biochemical reactions to information. So in a way the brain converts information into matter. The entire body is matter made up by biochemical processes. So it's not all beyond logic to suggest that there may be a mechanism by which influence on the information may influence, let's say, the growth of a tumor, itch in the nose due to contact with pollen or inflamation in the stomach tissue.
Current medical researches strongly focus on finding the chemicals that float around in the body and pay little attention to other factors.
In doing so, they effectively claim that what they don't look for isn't there.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:It's not because you can't explain it YET that you have to throw it away as complete nonsense IMO.

If scientists had done that over the centuries..

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:It is also proven that metal music is good for plant growth. They just don't know WHY yet

IZ.

That's easy to explain: They try to escape hell as well as possible. The only way of rescuing as much of their own from underground as is possible from underground is quick growth.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote: But I think they will spend some money to have a look at it behind closed doors to be absolutely SURE it works (we're talking science here; they are not allowed to 'just assume', only Einstein and Newton were allowed to say that).

But that's not how it works. Research has to be published. And none of the research has found evidence that homeopathy works any better than pure water. (Hardly a surprise, given that homeopathic remedies effectively are pure water)

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:The main point is, while Science is always busy to hunt after facts and proof, they completely fail to see that there MIGHT be solace in the power of the mind. The term 'just accept it bastards' will just not suffice

But that's not true at all. Why do you think they test medicines against placebo? Because there is a well-known (but still poorly-understood) benefit in giving someone fake medicine but telling them it's real.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:As with a lot of stuff in the past, they will find a rational explanation for the beneficial effects of homeopatic stuff, I'm sure.

There already is a rational explanation: the placebo effect.

eotunun wrote:there's not much money in homeopathy

You're kidding, right? Alt-medicine is a multi-million-dollar (euro, pound) industry. They don't have to spend money on research and development because they can just make sh!t up, they don't have to test the remedies, because "science is in the pocket of Big Pharma", they don't have to pay when things go wrong because real medicine will pick up the pieces.

Homeopathy in particular has great money-making potential because you're buying water for £5 per millilitre (or more).

markfiend wrote:

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:The main point is, while Science is always busy to hunt after facts and proof, they completely fail to see that there MIGHT be solace in the power of the mind. The term 'just accept it bastards' will just not suffice

But that's not true at all. Why do you think they test medicines against placebo? Because there is a well-known (but still poorly-understood) benefit in giving someone fake medicine but telling them it's real.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:As with a lot of stuff in the past, they will find a rational explanation for the beneficial effects of homeopatic stuff, I'm sure.

There already is a rational explanation: the placebo effect.

As I see we differ in view re homeopathy, I could easily call traditional medicines: "making you even more sick wich chemical rubbish", no?

I never saw the harm in the placebo effect anyway, only the way it is marketed as a wonder medicine is something I find wrong.

Then again, what's the difference with the marketing strategy of Kellogg's, Vitalinea Omega 3 and L Casei Immunitas products?

IZ.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:I never saw the harm in the placebo effect anyway, only the way it is marketed as a wonder medicine is something I find wrong.

No. I agree here

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:Then again, what's the difference with the marketing strategy of Kellogg's, Vitalinea Omega 3 and L Casei Immunitas products?

IZ.

Don't get me started! If anything, they're even worse.

But that's a different discussion.

if you want my twopenneth i will be totally honest and say that i "thought" that homeopathetic remedies worked.

and then i was given acupuncture by my doctor (Dr Pain as it happens ) he didnt say what he was going to do just asked me and my mum if he could try an alternative. i had a icky arm - so he lies me down, manipulates my arm and fingers until he's happy then sticks this godamned 4" needle in and leaves the room my mum nearly faints and i lie there staring at it thinking that he's coming back with the rest of the syringe no. thats it.

so we leave and i am so scared to move my arm for the next few days that it did feel better but as soon as i moved it again, no change

the second experience was with the hayfever eye drops he said, there will ease the itching and discomfort, two drops, three times a day. no problemo but they didnt arf sting like buggery and no comfort at all in fact didnt seem to be doing anything apart from agoony when putting them in

went back for a check up and Dr Pain asks whether the tongue drops were easing my hayfever atall

so after that i was quite happy to leave them alone

Homeopathy is pseudo-scientific nonsense. Next?!

Debi wrote:the second experience was with the hayfever eye drops he said, there will ease the itching and discomfort, two drops, three times a day. no problemo but they didnt arf sting like buggery and no comfort at all in fact didnt seem to be doing anything apart from agoony when putting them in

As a fellow SummerSniffer myself, what do you take for it at the moment, then?

IZ.

just sainsburys non drowsy cheapo tablets!! i dont suffer half as much now as when i were a wee nipper thankfully!!!

Debi wrote:just sainsburys non drowsy cheapo tablets!! i dont suffer half as much now as when i were a wee nipper thankfully!!!

There's just nothing that really WORKS against hayfever, now is there I tried everything. Not conventional nor homeopathic stuff helps.

IZ.

markfiend wrote:

eotunun wrote:there's not much money in homeopathy

You're kidding, right? Alt-medicine is a multi-million-dollar (euro, pound) industry. They don't have to spend money on research and development because they can just make sh!t up, they don't have to test the remedies, because "science is in the pocket of Big Pharma", they don't have to pay when things go wrong because real medicine will pick up the pieces.

Homeopathy in particular has great money-making potential because you're buying water for £5 per millilitre (or more).

Those companies are stil dwarfes compared to Bayer, Pizer and all the glass palace owners.
One can replace efficient antibiotics with some balm. True. But I, for example, I have never yet felt any use in Aspirin. Hot black tea is more efficient against a headache, if you ask me. Or a bottle of sparkling water.
I don't immediately reach for pills when having some aches anyway. Unlike that uncle of mine who died in February. He lived on a diet on coffee and Aspirin mainly, which over the time probably ruined his stomach and kidneys.

Debi wrote:if you want my twopenneth i will be totally honest and say that i "thought" that homeopathetic remedies worked.

and then i was given acupuncture by my doctor

Just to clarify (and I know earlier posts made the same mistake) acupuncture isn't homeopathy, which basically uses highly diluted solutions (aka water), the theory being that people are stupid enough to fall for it.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:It's not because you can't explain it YET that you have to throw it away as complete nonsense IMO. I've know people that significantly got better after listening to their favourite artist perform live. It is also proven that metal music is good for plant growth. They just don't know WHY yet ;)IZ.

Magic is just science we don't understand yet. Or, alternatively, science is just magic wearing its Sunday best.

Oh, alright, having worked in the natural foods/remedies retail industry, I guess I have to weigh in here...

The problem with homeopathy is that it takes what are often medically effective botanicals (after all, many lab-produced meds are only synthetic versions of compounds found in nature), applies 'less-is-more' magical thinking to it, and concludes that the tiniest proportion of essence to inert fluid is the most effective. Huh???

I'm not one to deny the effectiveness of any treatment if the results are demonstrable. However, the eejit who told my lethally allergic friend that she should eat royal jelly as a way to 'build up tolerance' to bee stings should have been drawn and quartered. All that would have done was land her in hospital.

Also, the 'kinesioligist' who used a laser-pointer on my acupressure points, waved a vial full of pyrite and other shiny bits suspended in some viscous fluid over my body, told me my pain issues were caused by dust and allergies (when they were, as I already knew, from a herniated disc), and prescribed a $50 jar of 'supplements' made primarily from grapefruit rind was nothing but a fecking witch doctor.

Damn, the edit-button's gone already:

eotunun wrote:One can replace efficient antibiotics with some balm.

That has to be can`T, of course!

stufarq wrote:Just to clarify (and I know earlier posts made the same mistake) acupuncture isn't homeopathy, which basically uses highly diluted solutions (aka water), the theory being that people are stupid enough to fall for it.

True. It's a moot point though; acupuncture is a placebo "treatment" too.

I read once about a group who claimed most of our illnesses are caused by stress and the toxins in our food. They claim you should just relax and drink distilled water for a few days and you can recover from just about anything.
Whilst I agree somewhat with the first part, I have to seriously wonder about the logic of the second.
My partners medication is slowly poisoning her, and doesn't even cure her illness. All it does is tranquilise her and nullify her brain to a degree, calming the symptoms. I'd be willing to try anything, but homeopathy, acupuncture, and waving crystals above her just don't seem to me to be logical.

DeWinter wrote: My partners medication is slowly poisoning her, and doesn't even cure her illness. All it does is tranquilise her and nullify her brain to a degree, calming the symptoms. I'd be willing to try anything, but homeopathy, acupuncture, and waving crystals above her just don't seem to me to be logical.

good lord thats sad, my thoughts are with you both. i trust you have badgered them and this is the best available?

DeWinter wrote:I read once about a group who claimed most of our illnesses are caused by stress and the toxins in our food. They claim you should just relax and drink distilled water for a few days and you can recover from just about anything.
Whilst I agree somewhat with the first part, I have to seriously wonder about the logic of the second.
My partners medication is slowly poisoning her, and doesn't even cure her illness. All it does is tranquilise her and nullify her brain to a degree, calming the symptoms. I'd be willing to try anything, but homeopathy, acupuncture, and waving crystals above her just don't seem to me to be logical.

Forgive me if it's none of my business, but what medication is she on?

Debi wrote:

DeWinter wrote: My partners medication is slowly poisoning her, and doesn't even cure her illness. All it does is tranquilise her and nullify her brain to a degree, calming the symptoms. I'd be willing to try anything, but homeopathy, acupuncture, and waving crystals above her just don't seem to me to be logical.

good lord thats sad, my thoughts are with you both. i trust you have badgered them and this is the best available?

That is sad. I don't want to sound like I'm beating "alternative medicine"'s or homeopathy's drum here (I think it worked for me, but it's hard to be sure), but even though it appears to be illogical wouldn't it be worth a shot? This could be a case of "nothing left to lose" - speaking purely from a personal perspective if I were in a position where "standard" medical treatment was not contributing to long-term QOL I would be inclined to see what else was out there, reasoning that crystals, chants, burning feathers, or whale music couldn't possibly make things any worse. Of course, it's tough to sort the charlatans from the people who actually have a modicum of understanding, and you'll want to ask the right questions ahead of time, but I would think it would be worth pursuing.

Personal opinion only - absolutely not trying to encourage anyone to go down a path that they're not interested in.

boudicca wrote: Forgive me if it's none of my business, but what medication is she on?

A pretty hefty dose of Lithium, venaflaxine and sometimes Diazepam. Lithium safe/toxic level is amazingly narrow. Her illness is unlikely to be cured, and roughly half the people with it end up dying by their own hand.
I'd be willing to take her off it, if I knew there was an alternative, but the risks are too heavy. It's a case of least worst option.

DeWinter wrote:They claim you should just relax and drink distilled water for a few days and you can recover from just about anything.
Whilst I agree somewhat with the first part, I have to seriously wonder about the logic of the second.

No, no, no.
The minerals and ions in water are important. Drinking entirely purified water will do more harm than good.

Dark wrote:

DeWinter wrote:They claim you should just relax and drink distilled water for a few days and you can recover from just about anything.
Whilst I agree somewhat with the first part, I have to seriously wonder about the logic of the second.

No, no, no.
The minerals and ions in water are important. Drinking entirely purified water will do more harm than good.

Distilled water is not really suited for consumption, even... while it is not really toxic as such, it causes the stomach to give off salts and minerals to make up for the lack of it in the distilled water. It might even lead to a decrease in red blood cells.

Mind, I'm talking about excessive intake of distilled water. A couple of pints won't make you sick, it will only have a rather bitter and unpleasant taste...

IZ.

coupla pints, where's the harm....

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DeWinter wrote:

boudicca wrote:Forgive me if it's none of my business, but what medication is she on?

A pretty hefty dose of Lithium, venaflaxine and sometimes Diazepam. Lithium safe/toxic level is amazingly narrow. Her illness is unlikely to be cured, and roughly half the people with it end up dying by their own hand.
I'd be willing to take her off it, if I knew there was an alternative, but the risks are too heavy. It's a case of least worst option.

Given the typical use of these meds, I have to agree that there is no 'cure': her condition is part of who she is. Control of symptoms is really all that can be done, whether by chemical means or through therapy. My own brain chemistry isn't nearly at that level of dysfunction, but I do have some inkling of what it's like, both from personal experience of the pharmacological catalogue and from far, far too many close friends.

You're a mensch to stand by her in such circumstances. I also know how hard that is, and what a toll it can take. You have my deepest sympathies - and I absolutely understand why you'd be grasping at just about anything that might offer some hope.

DeWinter wrote:

boudicca wrote: Forgive me if it's none of my business, but what medication is she on?

A pretty hefty dose of Lithium, venaflaxine and sometimes Diazepam. Lithium safe/toxic level is amazingly narrow. Her illness is unlikely to be cured, and roughly half the people with it end up dying by their own hand.
I'd be willing to take her off it, if I knew there was an alternative, but the risks are too heavy. It's a case of least worst option.

If, going by the medication, I'm right about the condition (and I may not be as the 50% suicide rate doesn't match) then I can also sympathise a little from both sides. I have the same condition but not anywhere near to the same degree (I'm lucky enough not even to need medication any more and never had to take lithium). But I can still confirm how horrible it can be at its worst and therefore how hard it must be for your partner.

Through my work, I'm also involved in caring for someone with a more severe condition and I can therefore understand how hard it must be for you. The difference is that I get paid and get to go home at the end of the day. And more than that, I don't have the emotional attachment to the person that you have.

Greatest respect to you both for coping.