Heartland

Me, I'm gemini, ascendent arsehole.
What will I eat tomorrow?

Learn to knit if you're desperate enough to waste your time on astrology..

In retrospect I shouldn't have put those details up. I was a bit shocked that they were so easily available, but on the other hand I'd be quite interested in seeing his natal chart.

800mak wrote:...The interpretation of a natal horoscope ( which can be done only by a person and not by a machine because it requires dynamic interpretation ) is an art and a science that requires considerable skill. The horoscopic positions and related aspects, progressions, returns and transits, are of a massive complexity....

does this art / science come with an ethical code of some sort that keeps those with the "considerable skill" from drawing up someones natal chart without their consent (or knowledge, for that matter)?

you don't need to put a space before and after a "/"

ok

welcome

Just to make it clear:
I do not believe in future-telling in astrology (nor in any other way, really) - "future" I mean things like who you'll marry, how many children you'll make and what will be the colour of the car in which you'll die.
What I'll defend at the stake is the conviction that astrology can describe, reveal, and disclose ones personality, and the reasons why one makes given choices in given situations in life, and also why one cannot escape the patterns that shape it all.

Harvey Winston wrote:In retrospect I shouldn't have put those details up. I was a bit shocked that they were so easily available, but on the other hand I'd be quite interested in seeing his natal chart.

... you can sell one another for fifteen cents ... well, bye-bye mother, it's common sense ...

In fact, if one takes astrology seriously, it's not only that past event of birth and ALL the aspects
on that day that have to be taken into account, but the present whereabouts of the person in
question (planets, stars and stones included) to commute a certain idea of what might be going on,
in case one had indeed every necessary knowledge about every single aspect of the universe at hand
which is researched as much as human metabolism ...

... and don't forget the joker - and the ricochets ... ... and your own blind spot ... and ...

'silly season', innit

_emma_ wrote:What I'll defend at the stake is the conviction that astrology can describe, reveal, and disclose ones personality, and the reasons why one makes given choices in given situations in life, and also why one cannot escape the patterns that shape it all.

I'm going to have to disagree (not sure if one can disagree with a conviction, but...) - there's nothing to indicate that where and when you're born has an influence over your personality. Without a knowledge of astrology one might be inclined to say "I'm stubborn because my dad is stubborn, he comes from a long line of stubborn men, and I have inherited that trait." Perfectly plausible.
But as soon as astrology rears its head people abandon rational thought and say, "I'm stubborn because I'm a taurus." The zodiac is no more accurate or predicative than tarot, runes, tea-leaves, or cutting something open to examine its entrails. In the days when people had short, brutish lives cut short by diseases that they couldn't understand, whose crops failed for reasons behind their ken, they sought out people who could explain these things. Hence soothsayers, astrologers, druids, wise women (although they were quite useful when it came to medicine and childbirth), and ultimately priests and the church all showed up to take advantage of man's desperation to have the world around them explained.
Taken with the same presence of mind as cinema, television, and fiction, there is nothing wrong with religion, astrology, or "fortune telling". Once you allow any of these things to inform your behaviour then you're on a slippery slope.

James Blast wrote:'silly season', innit

we in Poland used to call summer a 'cucumber season'

I guess

... it's springtime ... still ...

Being645 wrote:... it's springtime ... still ...

Ach ja! Daher das Schiet-Wetter...

Being645 wrote:... it's springtime ... still ...

Springtime for Hitler? there's the greatest argument against astrology I've ever heard - well, him and Nancy Reagan, obvy

A friend of mine-a man who has studied astrology for 25+ years-looked at a progression of his own chart and read there indications of major change in his life ahead.Specifically,in the partnership/romance area of his chart.As he was then engaged to his long-term girlfriend,he surmised the big change indicated in his chart referred to his upcoming marriage.A few weeks later,he came home to a big change indeed.There was a "Dear John" letter on the table.His fiance had left him for someone else.

I don't question the idea that there are signs in the stars.I just doubt anyones ability to read them.

EvilBastard wrote:there's nothing to indicate that where and when you're born has an influence over your personality.

I dunno, the only evidence to prove it that I have is the fact that my own chart was painfully accurate.

_emma_ wrote:

EvilBastard wrote:there's nothing to indicate that where and when you're born has an influence over your personality.

I dunno, the only evidence to prove it that I have is the fact that my own chart was painfully accurate.

I won't argue with that, although I'm not sure that it counts as evidence - possibly more akin to shooting an arrow into a piece of wood and then painting a target around it.
I would be interested to see the results of a blind study, where a chart is done for someone when they're born by someone who doesn't know the family, circumstances, etc. The results are kept secret until the person is, I don't know, 50 years old, and then the reality and the "prophecy" is compared.

Moakahontas wrote:

Being645 wrote:... it's springtime ... still ...

Ach ja! Daher das Schiet-Wetter...

Exactly - the last offshoots of March and April ...

EvilBastard wrote:I would be interested to see the results of a blind study, where a chart is done for someone when they're born by someone who doesn't know the family, circumstances, etc. The results are kept secret until the person is, I don't know, 50 years old, and then the reality and the "prophecy" is compared.

Alternatively, when you're bored enough and have some money to spend on silly things like this, you could have your own chart done, by an astrologist who doesn't know anything about your family, circumstances etc. - nothing but your place and date of birth.

_emma_ wrote:Alternatively, when you're bored enough and have some money to spend on silly things like this, you could have your own chart done, by an astrologist who doesn't know anything about your family, circumstances etc. - nothing but your place and date of birth.

True, but in case you'd not heard we're in a recession - I need to save my money for The Fourth Album

I implore anyone who believes in astrology to read the plethora of counter-evidence. If you can honestly say you have done so, and yet you still believe I don't know what to say really - we've reached a impasse. You have my beliefs, I have my own. But at least be honest to yourself.

We know enough about how the brain works, and how humans have an innate propensity to make up simple stories for complex things. Humans are simple, and cognitively skewed in all sorts of interesting ways. I find this sort of evidence most compelling, because it reveals to us the ways in which our brains will try and trick us and it's something we can all see and recognise.

It's no good to say it worked for you and your mates. This is what as known as anecdotal evidence. Please look into what this means.

It may be true that the time of year in which we are born as an effect on our personality. I don't find this impossible to believe. But astrology takes this and makes a HUGE jump in order to explain it. One thing that stuck in my mind recently is from Malcolm Gladwell's Tipping point regarding hockey players. What other people said was astrology in action turned out to have a much more obvious cause.

People say it's all just harmless fun, but I'm not so sure. These things must have all sorts of insidious effects surely? Nature versus nurture versus stars? Plus I even met a girl once who refused to date me, because I am a Scorpio. At least that's what she said...

I don't know, it really bothers me these things still persist. Furthermore, I can't help but believe that there are more worthwhile things to throw energy/money/time into. We have literature, science, philosophy, and art. How do people even end up studying astrology?

EvilBastard wrote:... The Fourth Album

... not the worst title ... :: ::

If I may....
Being, as I am, from the southern hemisphere, all the usual guff chuffed out about the seasons/planets/month/charts is all upside down for me, only noone seems to have told the astrologers...
A friend gave me a chart many years ago (for my 21st I think) and it just made no sense at all.... I was born on July 7th, according to traditional astrological rules this makes me a lovely Summer baby, with all the joy of whatever planets etc are around at that time.
But I was born in Australia, where it was a bitterly cold winter morning.