Heartland

flakk13 wrote:The old friend who later became known as judas

Thanks for clearing that up.

paint it black wrote:Yes, Tony James, as i wrote about a month ago in the other thread

Did you? Sorry, doesn't ring a bell. Which thread?

mh wrote:

stufarq wrote:Why would there be legal problems in naming this person?

Presumably on account of the Patsy lawsuit; the whole thing may still be sub-judice (pun most definitely intended).

That did occur to me but surely someone uninvolved, posting here with speculation or quoting other sources wouldn't be infringing on that.

stufarq wrote:That did occur to me but surely someone uninvolved, posting here with speculation or quoting other sources wouldn't be infringing on that.

Quite.

As to whether our dear Chairman meets that criterion, well...

Is our dear Chairman not his real name then?

Oh my God - is it Doktor Avalanche?

I am not at liberty to confirm or deny the identity (or otherwise) of Chairman Bux

Spoiler: It's Quiffy's sockpuppet

(Well ,that cat's outta the bag )

RE: The did patsy morrison play bass on Floodland or not:

Seeing as how the bass playing in Giving Ground is quite similar sounding to Torch (IMO), could we assume A) She did play bass on Floodland or B) Von played bass on both Gift and Floodland himself. If B was true then what would be the point apart from promotional stuff? Unless some of the pics with Pasty and the E-Man together were promotional pics for Gift? (though if so were were the other members and I'm guessing wouldn't appear seeing as he just wrote/produced it, not sang on it)

I was under the impression Gift was entirely programmed by Von.

Motz wrote:

stufarq wrote:That did occur to me but surely someone uninvolved, posting here with speculation or quoting other sources wouldn't be infringing on that.

Quite.

As to whether our dear Chairman meets that criterion, well...

The Chairman can always say it was me.

AdrenaChris wrote:Seeing as how the bass playing in Giving Ground is quite similar sounding to Torch (IMO

Wasn't Torch written by Von for the truncated 'Left on a Miss.ion and Revenge'?

Dark wrote:Spoiler: It's Quiffy's sockpuppet

You're wrong.

Denials are hopeless.Fuel to the fire

copper wrote:Wasn't Torch written by Von for the truncated 'Left on a Miss.ion and Revenge'?

Yup, that was the one that Craig quite notoriously refused to play.

markfiend wrote:

Dark wrote:Spoiler: It's Quiffy's sockpuppet

You're wrong.

I know.

Dark wrote:

markfiend wrote:

Dark wrote:Spoiler: It's Quiffy's sockpuppet

You're wrong.

I know.

Just stirring the pot...

And seeing if anyone is actually paying attention.

sultan2075 wrote:I was under the impression Gift was entirely programmed by Von.

Does that mean that all Patsy did was the "2-5-0-0-0"?

Come to think of it, what did Alan Vega do? The Sisterhood wiki says he played keyboards, which is what I'd always been under the impression was his role, but having looked him up (I'm not au fait with Suicide) he's a singer, not a keyboard player. Did he sing on Gift? Everything (apart from Lucas Fox on Finland Red, Egypt White) sounds like the same person, who I've always assumed to be James Ray (I'm not au fait with his work either).

mh wrote:

copper wrote:Wasn't Torch written by Von for the truncated 'Left on a Miss.ion and Revenge'?

Yup, that was the one that Craig quite notoriously refused to play.

That's interesting. I always thought Craig left because he was annoyed at Eldo refusing to sing Wayne's new songs.

stufarq wrote:

mh wrote:

copper wrote:Wasn't Torch written by Von for the truncated 'Left on a Miss.ion and Revenge'?

Yup, that was the one that Craig quite notoriously refused to play.

That's interesting. I always thought Craig left because he was annoyed at Eldo refusing to sing Wayne's new songs.

From the various complaints lodged here and there over time, it seems there was a variety of issues that caused his exit...

stufarq wrote:Come to think of it, what did Alan Vega do? The Sisterhood wiki says he played keyboards, which is what I'd always been under the impression was his role, but having looked him up (I'm not au fait with Suicide) he's a singer, not a keyboard player. Did he sing on Gift? Everything (apart from Lucas Fox on Finland Red, Egypt White) sounds like the same person, who I've always assumed to be James Ray (I'm not au fait with his work either).

Being a big Suicide fan, I was thinking the same thing some time ago. What seems to be accepted as fact was that he did vocals for a This Corrosion demo - along with James Ray, Lucas Fox and, at some point, Eldo. Eldo's thing might've been to recruit people to do vocals so he could call it a band. Of course, Patsy's (some) bass lines prove Eldo wasn't completely alone while putting down the instrumentals.

Didn't James Ray allude Lucas Fox did vocals on Rain From Heaven? Alan Vega's takes on some tracks may exist, and may even be buried into the choruses.

7anthea7 wrote:

stufarq wrote:

mh wrote: Yup, that was the one that Craig quite notoriously refused to play.

That's interesting. I always thought Craig left because he was annoyed at Eldo refusing to sing Wayne's new songs.

From the various complaints lodged here and there over time, it seems there was a variety of issues that caused his exit...

Yup, Craig has actually built up quite a reputation for walking out of bands over the years, hasn't he?

But him refusing to play Torch was Von's side of the story; I'm sure that the other protagonists would tell it completely different. Either way, if it hadn't been that he would have found something else no doubt, and not before too long either.

copper wrote:Eldo's thing might've been to recruit people to do vocals so he could call it a band.

Surely Eldo's thing was just to get the record out as soon as possible so that he could trademark the name. Worrying about making it look like a proper band would have been way down his list of priorities. But if Vega contributed even to unused tracks then that might have been enough to get him a credit. (Although some people will immediately ask why others who supposedly contributed to tracks that did appear on certain albums didn't get a credit. Which brings us full circle.)

copper wrote:Didn't James Ray allude Lucas Fox did vocals on Rain From Heaven? Alan Vega's takes on some tracks may exist, and may even be buried into the choruses.

Now that you mention it, that does sound like the same voice as on Finland Red.

stufarq wrote:Surely Eldo's thing was just to get the record out as soon as possible so that he could trademark the name. Worrying about making it look like a proper band would have been way down his list of priorities.

In case he was under an exclusive deal with WEA, forbidding him to release anything as a performing artist without their direct consent, he would've needed an outer appearance of a band beyond himself. I doubt any of the Gift vocalists perform their usual duties on the album aside Patsy, even though they round up a capable lineup on paper.

mh wrote:But him refusing to play Torch was Von's side of the story; I'm sure that the other protagonists would tell it completely different. Either way, if it hadn't been that he would have found something else no doubt, and not before too long either.

The story goes on that Von contacted Patsy on the bassist slot the day Craig walked. If true, it pretty much signaled Craig his services wouldn't be needed and that Von might've wanted to bring Patsy on to do modeling anyway.

copper wrote:In case he was under an exclusive deal with WEA, forbidding him to release anything as a performing artist without their direct consent, he would've needed an outer appearance of a band beyond himself. I doubt any of the Gift vocalists perform their usual duties on the album aside Patsy, even though they round up a capable lineup on paper.

Not really. Von doesn't sing and James Ray does (or so everyone always says). he didn't need to list a bunch of people who didn't do anything - he could have just got Ray to sing it and called him The Sisterhood.

And if you believe the version of the story that the 25000 was the advance promised by WEA to whichever party (Eldritch or Hussey/Adams) could get a record out first, they were quite happy to play along and turn a blind eye.

stufarq wrote:Von doesn't sing and James Ray does (or so everyone always says). he didn't need to list a bunch of people who didn't do anything - he could have just got Ray to sing it and called him The Sisterhood.

Then, do they play any of their usual parts on the album?

I'm just asking, since I assumed it was a Von show throughout. Would be interesting to learn there'd be, for instance, Alan Vega's keys.

stufarq wrote:And if you believe the version of the story that the 25000 was the advance promised by WEA to whichever party (Eldritch or Hussey/Adams) could get a record out first, they were quite happy to play along and turn a blind eye.

That's an odd clause to have, unless the plan would be motivate a post-TSOM entity to further their career at WEA. In that sense, Von basically screwed everybody out of the advance, since he apparently had no interest to Gift beyond its release and would've reverted to the TSOM moniker regardless, thus holding on to their existing contract with EastWest.

Which took The Mish to Phonogram. Ironically, if Von'd let it slide, he could've found himself in a situation later in life where Gift (even beaten to the punch and still released) would'd earned him a solo contract with a label outside the TSOM-governing East West.

Fairly sure JR said he didn't sing on Colours..

Lucas Fox on Colours, wasn't it? The only real James Ray vocal performance on it was Giving Ground I'm sure.

So...

Jihad: Patsy
Colours: Lucas Fox
Giving Ground: James Ray
Finland Red, Egypt White: Lucas Fox
Rain from Heaven: Lucas Fox

Everyone aside Alan Vega would now be accounted for at least something.