Heartland

If they were seen as a Sad old G oth band that could return a profit through record sales then there wouldn't be a problem. All things considered I'd be very surprised if a new SoM album sold more than 2000 copies.

Jim wrote:

dead inside wrote:

Black Shuk wrote: You might argue - 'Andrew owes us nothing', but I disagree.
If he wants to live in cloud cuckoo land, that's fine, just don't pester us with any more bitter interviews with mickey mouse magazines and sub-standard shows.

We've stuck by you - the relationship betwenn us fans and Von over the last 10 years has been 'give give give' - by us.

Mmmmmm... I understand your point. It's frustrating to be a fan for so long without getting a reward. But no one can be forced to do what they don't want - not even your boyfriend/girldfriend - just because you love them.
Eldritch doesn't pester us. We are the ones who want to hear about him. Otherwise, no one forces us either. He certainly isn't forcing us into anything...
Love is something we have to learn to give without expecting a return. Well, I know it's hard... Etc.

I couldn't disagree more - the man puts himself up there as if it's god-given right to have people interested in him and watching his every move. Then he complains that the wrong people are listening...

Now, that's a different story: who's listening to him and why?
Not that he is exactly yelling "listen to me"!...
Yes, he says he is very clever and everybody should listen to him but that's what he says. Then you have a mind of your own to decide whether to listen or not. That was my point.

Well he's obviously not about to ring us each individually, or put up billboard signs...

What he does instead, at the first sign of dwindling interest is complain loudly, and publicly, to anyone who's still listening. Which is pretty close to "shouting" in my book.

Jim wrote:Well he's obviously not about to ring us each individually, or put up billboard signs...

What he does instead, at the first sign of dwindling interest is complain loudly, and publicly, to anyone who's still listening. Which is pretty close to "shouting" in my book.

Ultimately...isn't it possiable the guy's just worn down and jaded by general music industry erosion ? It is possiable to feel trapped by the demands of the fans and the industry. Neither of whom really share the same objectives of your typical rock and roll muso, believe it or not.

Do musicians become bitter and angry watching the fickleness of people who have no real appreciation of music and the machinations of a cynical and corrupt industry and find working a chore as a result ? I wonder.

Personally I hope not. But AE has been doing this allot longer than most. Perhaps to this end we all must come ? There is a rather tasty Rock'n'roll homily in there somewhere.

You hear this type of conversation so often being a sisters fan. And frankly i cant see it. But then ive only been a 'fan' since i was about 16, so thats only 5 years, 3 albums, and a bunch of eps in 5 years is quiet a lot. Where as some of you have had like 20 years with the material, so i guess i can see why you feel the way you do. And yes even im getting impatient waiting for another release of some sort. a DVD would certainly fill the gap, for now..

To put it bluntly, you either sh1t or get off the pot.

I think Chris Starling has had the same experience of record company insanity and creative stifling, and has come through it, and is now producing good work his own way on his own terms. That's one of the reasons I think it's great that he's around, plus the fact that he's a nice guy, and writes good songs. He's my big hope, I think...

Personally, I can't see Spig ever agreeing to Gary Marx rejoining the band in case it was misinterpreted as an admission by the great man that in order for The Sisters to continue he needs to reintroduce an original member. Spig has always taken a great deal of pride in the fact the he was able to keep the band going after the intial break-up, something he himself doubted at the time.

Since then it's been a continual voyage of reinvention and "revision". Initially Spig fawns over Patricia, calls her an "inspiration", 6 months later she's out of the band, out of her flat and apparently she didn't play bass.
Quote " I'm not at liberty to say whether she played on the record". Oh come on either she did or didn't ! Why so obtuse? Are you trying to convince us or yourself? The Vision Thing lineup - and suddenly there's a live band but there's an obvious emphasis on Spig-penned material and a de-emphasis on Marx/ Hussey works although Marian is still in vogue at the time. The Vision Thing lineup disintegrates - no doubt due to the fact that Bricheno, James et al had other more enjoyable and personally gratifying projects to be getting on with, similar to Mr. Starling. Oh and FALAA gets a new intro, take that Marx !

Lyrically Spig is a shadow of his former-self, musically he owes more to the Glitter Band these days than Bowie. I truely believe he is content with The Sisters becoming The New Ramones, nostalgia driven, low expectations of anything new or fresh. A yearly dose of dwindling adulation - Quote "we are not a club band, we don't and never will play to any less than 5000 people", oh no ?

Spig has always said things like "we know what our fans want", usually it was with a wry smile. You'd read it and think "yeah I think you do" and for the most part he did, it was like an in-joke between him and us but least of all the dumb music journalist. Read through the old UTR's and re-live the level of communication and interaction Spig had with his fans, compare that to now, when he says "I know what our fans want". It's not said in the same vein. He's just a cranky old git who has realised the wasted opportunities and the ever decreasing possibilities for his band.

The reason The Sisters haven't put anything new out in over a decade is
because however self-invloved Spig is he can appreciate that the new material doesn't cut it and would be critically slammed when compared to
the previous outings. Remember the history here, not sure if he could carry on after 1985, needs "big names" to float his Vision Thing. Brings on a couple of "plug-n-play" non-descript guitarists and runs The Sisters as if it were a hobby out of his garage for the next 13 years. The man has no
confidence in himself anymore and worst still he's become one of the idle rich living in inner-Europe next door to Boris from Yello, "Oh Yeah!"

Meanwhile Hussey's out playing solo all over the world, enjoying what he's doing. Patsy's embarking on The Damned's 3 millionth Farewell tour,
Gary Marx has resurfaced with a new 8-track cartridge and Bricheno and James are doing whatever they do these days.

On the bright side Crash and Burn aint that bad...........

Vox

@ Vox:

Some interesting and very well observed points.
Also sounds like you've got a little inside information.

Vox wrote:Meanwhile Hussey's out playing solo all over the world, enjoying what he's doing. Patsy's embarking on The Damned's 3 millionth Farewell tour

too true. i'd like more bands to be like the damned - constantly touring and still making time for new records, t.v. appeerances and interveiws without it turning into overkill.

von isn't the only "not goth" singer around - bob smith said it, siouxsie sioux said it, huss said it - makes you more goth y'see.

it's getting to the point where the next thing von does put out will totally make or break. it'll either be the triumphant comeback of these gods of rock, or it'll throw the sisters into the history books and leave them there.

meh. i could be very very wrong though. wasn't born till '84 and yadda yadda.

i'll go put on a tracksuit and faux gold jewellery and be surly and shout "minted" and "minging" randomly. s'what 18 year olds do innit?

d00mw0lf wrote:
meh. i could be very very wrong though. wasn't born till '84 and yadda yadda.

i'll go put on a tracksuit and faux gold jewellery and be surly and shout "minted" and "minging" randomly. s'what 18 year olds do innit?

No! don't do that! you sound like the coolest 18 year old in the world!

If the sisters are gonna have any kind of successful comeback, they will need as many young fans as possible.
I'm in the process of weening my 17-year-old-brother onto the Sisters. He can onky resist for so long... Ha ha ha

i have nephews at 1 and 9 years old...

let the brainwashing begin!

I never thought of SoM as a real Goth band, because the aesthetic links were never there in the way that say Bauhaus were steeped in German Expressionism. The m*****n of course were pantomime goth at it's worst - the videos for Stay with me and Tower of Strength are ridiculous - I wonder what Von's reaction the The Metal Gurus was.....

Goth's agenda has changed so much from the Dr. Caligari sordid artfulness of Bauhaus up to the.....well, what we have now which stands for very little. Goth always did like to wear it's name-checks on it's sleeve, which I don't see happening now, which is a shame - if it wasn't for the Neph I wouldn't have checked-out spaghetti westerns and HP Lovecraft. Where do Linkin Park point to?

There was a great time - probably 87-88 where Goth was sub-cultural and literate, but as with all great movements, "Establishment=>Virtuosity=>Decadence=>Self-parody" applies.

Although I'm not a Guardian reader (well, sometimes I have to read book reviews from "Guardian" web-site due to my work ) I like German expressionism and "Dr. Caligari's Cabinet" very much. By the way, 2 days ago a friend of mine gave me as a present a CD-R with this film

slicepack wrote: The m*****n of course were pantomime goth at it's worst - the videos for Stay with me and Tower of Strength are ridiculous - I wonder what Von's reaction the The Metal Gurus was.....

And the Body and Soul video wasn't very Spinal Tap at all was it?

Actually, The M.I.S.S.I.O.N were pantomime Goth at it's very, very best and as for The Metal Gurus project, it was an opportunity to have a laugh, not take yourself too seriously, make a little money for charity and emulate your heroes. I mean, Spig thinks he's Bowie/Lou Reed/Joey Ramone/ Alan Vega often enough. If Wayne wants to be Noddy, good for him.

The Sisters were and some may claim always will be despite protestations a Goth band. It's a media coined term, the media categorized The Sisters as such and therefore in the media, they are. Everyone's free to differ but I'd hate to have to defend Spig's denial in a court of law.

Fat parents usually have fat kids. Spig's kids, Wayne, Craig, Patricia and little Gary all left the family home and found themselves in erm... Goth bands to some degree. Me ? I blame the parents, Daddy Spig. You learn that kind of sh1t in the home.....

The Sisters were the very best Goth band there ever was. Can you see the symbolism? You get to the very top of the heap and then you spit on the honour as meaningless, how kewl, how very Spig.........

Nigel Tufnel: In ancient times, hundreds of years before the dawn of history, an ancient race of people... the Druids. No one knows who they were or what they were doing...

Vox wrote: The Sisters were and some may claim always will be despite protestations a Goth band.

Well, that depends on what your criteria is, and how legitimate/authoratitive your rule book is. Is Blue Nun a Goth drink because it was drunk by Goths? Was Poe a Goth poet because he's read by Goths? Is Nosferatu a Goth film?

vox wrote: It's a media coined term, the media categorized The Sisters as such and therefore in the media, they are.

Oh come now, the first Gothic Movement was 14th Century, with the Neo-Gothic being a Victorian confection. If you allow the NME and Mick Mercer to dictate the rubric of your aesthetic indulgences then you've missed the point - the media REACT (usually in a negative fashion) to subcultures, they don't generate them, although they'll try (remember 'New Grave'?)

Labelling artists is only useful when studying the mechanisms they choose to deploy - "a map is not the territory". AE's opinions on Postmodernism apply here - although I'm loathed to agree with him.

I agree fully with that last post. Not only is this goth-or-not-goth debate just circular (the media called the sisters goths, therefore they must be????), but it shows a really limited view of rock history. I was recently wondering why AE always releases albums with black covers, if he's so bothered by the goth tag. Then I woke up. Why the hell shouldn't he? Rock bands have always released bands with black covers. AE feels that he fits in with a certain, broadly-defined rock tradition. But no-one ever called Black Sabbath goths, did they?

I really agree with AE on this one - journalists are lazy (or, more charitably, over-worked). They have a large backstore of cliches and rumours, ready to be wheeled into action whenever they see a deadline. Some people want to fit into these cliches. That's their prerogative. Some people want OTHER people to fit into these cliches. That's NOT their prerogative. Sorry.

MrChris wrote:(the media called the sisters goths, therefore they must be????),.

Read my post again

" It's a media coined term, the media categorized The Sisters as such and therefore in the media, they are"

Note the "in the media" part, very, very important, if you don't get this part, like Slicepack you miss the entire point of the post.

The Sisters in the media are a Goth band whether you or I agree or disagree with it, such is their fate.

The sad fact is Mick Mercer has dictated late 20th century Goth culture which is certainly more prevalent than the 14th century form you mention, and sadly I don't see many Victorians down Covent Garden these days.

You cannot dictate to people how they should view you which AE has tried to do many, many times, just doesn't work like that. And anyone who can look at The Walk Away video and insist that The Sisters were not courting a Goth following in 1984, I think needs to admit to the reality of the situation.

Vox (unintentionally stirring up that old hornets nest)

Whilst i do realise that whoever started this topic thinks that he didn't mean it as the main point, his choise of title is still conscious and a deliberate act and gives me the possibility of saying this:
Whoever was interested in Sisters because he thought they were "cool", has probably never been interested in what Sisters are about, and i'm quite sure if they ever were "cool" that was a side-effect of something else.

dei

Okay, we appear to have a language barrier problem. Does someone else want to explain, cos I really can't be fukked.

I think that the question, whether the sisters have blown their cool or not doesnt really matter. i ve always seen the sSOM project as a genious market gap. And that market gap is: Iggy Pop is growing too old, his songs are not powerful enough, and the sisters fill the market gap to give the young fans what they want: Powerful fast "IGGY" rock, maybe a bit younger with punk influence. I mean if andrew would s**t on the floor on stage, there would still be a need for that band and there will be a need for that band in the future, because no other band does it that way. Noone is interested if they have blown their cool, the people come to the shows only for the music, if you take covers like 1969 whats that really? The most powerful IGGY ive ever heard, and that Idea alone is enough to headline festivals in the future...

The Sisters never had any cool, anyway. that's one of the reasons why I love them.

And I've always been proud to call meself a goth.

i think by "cool" he means the arrogant, distant, attitude that eldritch has. that swagger, that pose. that pout. that strut.

and yes, it was seeing a photo of floodland-era von that made me want to hear the stuff someone like that would record... and its been downhil all the way since then

and even now that he doesnt wear a cowboy hat or pointy boots, he still swaggers and is still an arrogant f**k.

so no, they haven't lost their cool. and yes i still like them for it

Yes, that's what cool means, I guess. Mind you, tetchy Mr Eldritch did lose his cool somewhat in Wolverhampton when the eejit hecklers interrupted I Was Wrong. I suspect that's the last time we'll see him doing the sitting-down, serious-band, wish-we-were-on-Unplugged type thing.

Which means, of course, that the next topic will have to be called
'Have the Sisters lost their stool?'







Sorry, couldn't help it...

MrChris wrote:Which means, of course, that the next topic will have to be called
'Have the Sisters lost their stool?'

what a crap name...