Heartland

DeWinter wrote:I suppose he's talking the liklihood up so it doesn't appear as disastrous to the Tory party that they can't drum up the support to eject one of the most unpopular governments and prime ministers we've had.

Agreed - if Cameron can't even oust Brown then he (and the Tory party) are history.

DeWinter wrote:The Tory party deal with useless leaders a lot more ruthlessly than Labour do, out of all three current party leaders, he's the one that HAS to win to keep his position.

Actually I think Brown will also be out if he fails to win - he's also unpopular within his own party and is seen as a liability.

Strangely, while the Tories are certainly more than happy to stick the knives into their leaders at the first sign of failure, it's usually the party rank-and-file (and the MPs who speak for them) who lose the elections for the Tories. The job of a Tory leader is to convince the racist, homophobic xenophobes who make up the rank-and-file to shut the f**k up during an election campaign. Cameron's done fairly well at this (apart from Chris Grayling's moronic interjection).

But if the Tories don't start gaining ground I'll bet that there'll be loud mutterings from the rank & file claiming that the Tories are losing because they're not being bigoted enough (usually phrased as various loony tirades against Brussels, the single currency, buggery, single mothers, anyone who's not white, anyone who's not a Christian, the undeserving poor, benefits cheats... basically pick any Daily Mail headline or UKIP manifesto pledge).

We all know that it's these nutters who lose the Tories the elections (remember William Hague in a "Save the Pound" baseball hat?), but the nutters think that all "normal, right-thinking, people" (for definition, see above) will be vigorously nodding their heads in agreement.

Erudite wrote:

markfiend wrote:Is it just me or is Cameron's constant blathering about a hung parliament tantamount to an concession of defeat?

He was doing a fair bit of scaremongering last I saw - "Only a Tory government in full control of the country can save us etc."

Which to my ears sounds like "We are unable to work with others in a sensible and professional manner to further the best interests of this country".

My vote's going to the LibDems

lazarus corporation wrote: Agreed - if Cameron can't even oust Brown then he (and the Tory party) are history.

And yet he was on course for a healthy majority up untill very recently. His policies haven't become more Right-wing recently, they've edged much closer to that of the Labour party. Osbourne suddenly decided massive cuts weren't needed (only an utter fool believes otherwise), Cameron backs out of his promised referenda, Boris Johnson governs London in exactly the same way as Ken Livingston once did. As someone who was going to vote Tory, I won't vote for them now, because I see no point in continuing Labour's policies, which I don't think anyone can deny have failed.

lazarus corporation wrote: Actually I think Brown will also be out if he fails to win - he's also unpopular within his own party and is seen as a liability.

I'm not so sure. If anyone had the guts to stand up to him, surely they'd have done it now? Don't forget no-one contested his becoming P.M even, when he essentially forced Blair out. Who would you replace him with? Harriet Harman, Ed Balls, Jack Straw, a Milliband? All have pitch sticking to them, and are just as unpopular. He's PM still because Labour has no-one else. Maybe if Labour get a sufficient kicking we might see Labour start listening to the likes of Frank Field, but it's a long shot.

lazarus corporation wrote: Strangely, while the Tories are certainly more than happy to stick the knives into their leaders at the first sign of failure, it's usually the party rank-and-file (and the MPs who speak for them) who lose the elections for the Tories. The job of a Tory leader is to convince the racist, homophobic xenophobes who make up the rank-and-file to shut the f**k up during an election campaign. Cameron's done fairly well at this (apart from Chris Grayling's moronic interjection).

I'll lay you dollars to donuts public opinion was on the side of Chris Grayling in that "B&B" debate though. The public tolerate homosexuality all in all, but that's it. And I'm a bisexual male. Personally, if I was in the same position as that gay couple, I would have just gone somewhere else. There are plenty of gay-only B&B'S, although that hasn't been mentioned much.

lazarus corporation wrote:But if the Tories don't start gaining ground I'll bet that there'll be loud mutterings from the rank & file claiming that the Tories are losing because they're not being bigoted enough (usually phrased as various loony tirades against Brussels, the single currency, buggery, single mothers, anyone who's not white, anyone who's not a Christian, the undeserving poor, benefits cheats... basically pick any Daily Mail headline or UKIP manifesto pledge).

We all know that it's these nutters who lose the Tories the elections (remember William Hague in a "Save the Pound" baseball hat?), but the nutters think that all "normal, right-thinking, people" (for definition, see above) will be vigorously nodding their heads in agreement.
My vote's going to the LibDems

I actually took a liking to Hague. He wiped the floor with Blair in any debate they had, but Blair certainly knew how to use the media to his advantage. He even latched on to that god-awful mawkish "People's Princess" rubbish when Diana died. His lip wobbling performance made me want to vomit. Hague simply saying "My condolences to her family" won me over. I didn't vote Tory, but I determined never to vote for Blair again.
The Libs are a European style Social Democrat party. That's not a bad thing, but what it is is completely out of kilter with the public mood. A brief glimpse at some of their manifesto commitments reveals some very unpopular proposals. The English in particular are small "c" conservative in nature. And if you want to hear a tirade against benefits claimants, single mothers, immigrants and muslims, I'll take you on a tour of my rose-red Labour town. The white-working class Labour voters make the Shire Tory's look positively glowing with tolerance and love. Your average Tory never meets any of the above groups, your average Labour voter lives amongst them, and they are NOT happy bunnies about it.

I have to interject with this wonderful image:

Discussion of relative merits is what democracy is all about. But it's never changed my mind.

Labour = one for all and all for one.

Tories = f**k you, I'm insured.

Liberals = Jeremy Thorpe.

After conducting my own research poll (i.e. my daughter), she'd vote for Gordon.

lazarus corporation wrote:I have to interject with this wonderful image:

Aye, they're both masterful showmen, that's for sure. Shame Cameron doesn't have a fraction of Mercury's talent.

boudicca wrote: Aye, they're both masterful showmen, that's for sure. Shame Cameron doesn't have a fraction of Mercury's talent.

True, but we can at least hope he, Cameron, will die from AIDS.

And yes, that is petty and nasty, but a good deal of ale has been consumed and yadda yadda, I still remember Thatcher!

I'm willing to bet you'll come back and delete that once you've sobered up!

Naw, in the heat of passion, he's still a Tory cunt!

But, as we know, I don't hate all posh people.

Elephants have nothing compared to an East-coaster who feels he's been wronged!

Erudite wrote: True, but we can at least hope he, Cameron, will die from AIDS.

And yes, that is petty and nasty, but a good deal of ale has been consumed and yadda yadda, I still remember Thatcher!

Guess someone needs to challenge me for the crown of Most Unpleasant Forum Member!
Bet you don't get a thread dedicated to bitching about you like I did when I delighted in Teddy Kennedy's death!Hmmph!Mod's pet!!..*grumbles*:lol: http://www.myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic. ... dy+kennedy

That's because Thatcher and Cameron are truly evil, and also because Don is slightly evil and we're all very scared of him

boudicca wrote:That's because Thatcher and Cameron are truly evil, and also because Don is slightly evil and we're all very scared of him

Deep down I just want to be loved!

Erudite wrote:Given the first past the post system and the current boundaries the best we can hope for is a hung parliament and a Labour / Lib Dem coalition.

Oh yes. That worked really well last time.

Erudite wrote:I still remember Thatcher!

She snatched my milk

Facebook campaign to get Nick in!

Big Si wrote:

Erudite wrote:I still remember Thatcher!

She snatched my milk

Best thing she (n)ever did. No fridges in schools back then. Nothing worse than tepid summer milk.

DeWinter wrote:

Erudite wrote: True, but we can at least hope he, Cameron, will die from AIDS.

And yes, that is petty and nasty, but a good deal of ale has been consumed and yadda yadda, I still remember Thatcher!

Guess someone needs to challenge me for the crown of Most Unpleasant Forum Member!
Bet you don't get a thread dedicated to bitching about you like I did when I delighted in Teddy Kennedy's death!Hmmph!Mod's pet!!..*grumbles*:lol: http://www.myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic. ... dy+kennedy

Yeah, point taken

Even if we disagree on politics, HL is a big happy family and we all love each other. Group hugs?

Big Si wrote:She snatched my milk

If taking your milk had been the worst thing Thatcher did I would probably be willing to forgive her. As it is, given half an opportunity, I will happily do a little jig on her grave when she dies.
Thatcher was an evil, bitter woman who deliberately set out to destroy society by instilling a culture of greed where success and wealth took priority over community and helping those around you. The worst thing she ever did was giving people the right to buy their council houses. Council housing existed to provide homes for those on low incomes who could not afford to buy. The legacy of this “act of empowerment� is a rising tide of homelessness caused by the depletion of council housing stock and exacerbated by the majority of councils being so heavily in debt that they can barely maintain what property they own, let alone build new housing.
Where it was once respectable to be a council tenant, nowadays people consider you some sort of scum: “What, you don’t own your own home?� Ghettoes are born of prejudice and social injustice, not built of bricks and mortar.
I’m also sick and tired of idiot comments about the housing shortage being caused by immigrants or single mothers. The housing shortage is a direct result of eighteen years of a Tory spiv government privatising everything it could lay its greedy little mitts on, followed by thirteen years of New Labour’s watered down Thatcherism. Much as it pains me to say it, at least under John Major’s government I was able to get bursaries and grants to support me while studying for my degree and correspondingly graduated without having a mountain of crippling debt to pay. How the next generation is expected to put a roof over their heads and afford higher education is presently beyond me.
Yes, I’m ranting again but, frankly, I think I have every right to be bloody furious, although, in the cold light of day, I will retract last night’s comment wishing a slow and painful death on David Cameron. It’s not his fault – it’s his nature to be a cunt. Sadly, I fear there are enough gullible voters in middle England to put him in power.

markfiend: It's not like I didn't enjoy the arguing, anyway!
How much was Thatcher and how much the IMF? They don't give you loans without hefty conditions. God help Greece. There's a limit to what I can say about her or her decisions, I could only have been 11 when she was given the heave-ho. And people are hardly calm and rational discussing her, I notice. But she has her passionate supporters too, and a fair number of them are/were working class.
As for council homes, the poorest don't live in them around here. The poorest are living in multiple-occupation housing and paying twice the amount for the priviledge under a BTL landlord. And BTL is a purely Labour phenomenon, due to the tax breaks they've given them. I suppose their logic is keep the house prices up by keeping supply low. Immigrants are probably, where housing is concerned, part of that equation, more people, high demand, higher prices. The local Poles all rent privately, homes that quite honestly a council wouldn't dare try and give someone.
As to the young girls with kids..they certainly do leap the queue. I've seen that happen myself with a friends girlfriend, and I fail to see why someone who hasn't paid in should get priority. When I tried I was told as a young single man I could "survive on the streets". Word for word. And that's after 10+ years of tax, NI, etc. If anyone can ever tell me why I should subsidise other peoples housing that was not available to me when I was homeless, I'd dearly like them to tell me!

DeWinter wrote: If anyone can ever tell me why I should subsidise other peoples housing that was not available to me when I was homeless, I'd dearly like them to tell me!

We could start with because it's the morally right thing to do.
What happened to you was unjust and wrong and you have my sympathy, but putting other people through it (who you may feel deserve it by not contributing to society) won't change or make it right.

When all's said and done, it's a moot point.
Personally, I don't like a portion of my taxes being used to finance wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but they don't give you the option of saying I'd like my money to go towards the NHS and education.

For those still conflicted about which party to vote for, here's a handy tool:


Who should I vote for?


I doubt anyone will be surprised by my results:

Lib Dem 71%

Scottish Green Party 60%

SNP 57%

UKIP 56% WTF!

Labour 33%

BNP 18%

Tory 18%

I wouldn't say they "deserve" it. I wouldn't see anybody homeless, if it was avoidable, it was horrible enough becoming it myself, even if I did avoid the streets (by selling EVERYTHING I had to pawnbrokers so I could keep me and my bi-polar partner in a second-rate guest house!).
I just don't see why they become a priority. Taking money from me under the name of "insurance" and then telling me to take a hike when I need it, and then adding insult to injury by expecting me to contribute to others still can't be right. If I get ill, my health insurance company doesn't say "Sorry, we've spent your money on someone we think more deserving, by the way, we still expect you to pay for it the rest of your life".

BNP, then UKIP, then..Lib Dems! Bit of a difference between 2nd and 3rd there! And I don't think agreeing that foreign criminals should be deported is amazingly right-wing, but there we go!

Many of the questions are rather poorly worded.
Deporting someone for murder is one thing, but for a parking ticket quite another.
Then there's the question of whether Asylum seekers should be allowed to work while waiting for their case to be heard.
Personally, I would think it preferable that they do so and pay taxes rather than having to be supported on benefits.

Strange thing, a few years back, the BBC put the BNP's policies to the public, but without the BNP's name to them, and found a small majority of the population actually agreed.
My plan was to vote for the biggest of the small parties, and that's them, here.I'm afraid for me, I don't believe their plans on repatriation will remain voluntary. It'll become compulsory within a few years if they ever get in, so they can't have my vote. Over the past few years, either they've become less noxious, or the other parties more so, so they don't strike me with the loathing they used to. But holding my nose and voting for them I'm not prepared to do just yet.
I would have voted for UKIP under Farage, but won't when it's under that doddering old idiot who offered to disband the party for a "promised" referendum from the Tories.
So it's looking like I'll have to vote for the Greens, which is rather pointless where I live.

Erudite wrote:

Big Si wrote:She snatched my milk

If taking your milk had been the worst thing Thatcher did I would probably be willing to forgive her.

I was only five years old, mate. You tend to remember injustices done to you when you were only a wee laddie

Aye, that were just the start of the many things she did to put a £ tag on the world