Heartland

you are still meringue, and it's obvious you have been seduced by the Amerikan way of life, it doesn't work that way over here

back off and back up to greed

And its obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about. See all those government and electorial reforms coming down the road in the UK? Wonder which country they got those ideas from, mmmm.

thank you and please don't surmise my experience as a Scottish person compared to yours

I don't think I did.

But still, I won't, as long as you stop sumising that people are "seduced" by something that allows them to reach their full potential.

okay, I concede my choice of words were incorrect but your dream of right wing potential really has fucked up the UK, the trains run less on time now than they did but you shot town, what do you know or care - your avatar kinda says it all and no, I'm not being an inverted snob

Rail privatization was performed 4 years after Thatcher. It had nothing to do with her. Labour promised to re-nationalize the railways in 1997, but didn't. They had 10 years to do it. But didn't. (ooo, I'm getting close to debating here, but no, I'm just presenting facts for your consideration).

My avatar. Interesting you bought that up. Yup, I like wine. I like good wine. Not sure what that has to do with politics and... greed?

But hang on. JB always has an Apple related avatar... an avatar for a big, corporate American company. A big corporate American company which is now larger than.... big old evil Microsoft!! Apple which release crap-in-a-box, dangerous hardware which overhears and burns out after 2 years. And then there's Steve Jobs, a cut throat CEO, albeit with a very, very good PR department.

So yes. avatars do kind of say it all.

emilystrange wrote: some of those people wanted to have something to leave to their children, maybe? or perhaps to have something to sell later, make some money, have a little nest egg to help with nursing home fees?

To be honest, it was the selling off of council houses that really got my goat (and still does) Just because you've rented a house from the Local Authority for 10 years does not give you the right to own it at a cut price. For every council house sold that's one less available for those who need them.

you're getting hysterical now dubdude and yes Ness I was only thinking that the other day as I drove through my auld home area of Glasgow, not to put too much of a point on it but it's a fuckin' ghetto now, as for the rail network a ball had been set rolling by the Torys that chicken shit New Labour didn't want to stop, face it they were just a shiney 'n00' right

yer avatar is, as mine is freedom of choice but yours is still snobby and you only join in on political threads, I wish you'd lighten up and join in the other stuff, or is that beneath you?

Pete wylie - you've got to love him. If nothing else his big mouth can cause some debate

@ nodubmanshouts - you can stick your american politcal ideals right up your greedy fat ass.

Well that's me told!

I think my thoughts on the Thatch are well known around these parts.

emilystrange wrote:do i really NOT have any memory of her actions? my my. i must have dreamed an awful lot. i was in my twenties when she was booted, i think that counts as (mostly) being sentient. and by elite, i don't necessarily mean public school. i mean those with power and influence.
do you really expect those who bought their council houses to have any concern for the population's future needs? what they wanted was to have their own home. it's not a crime. some of those people wanted to have something to leave to their children, maybe? or perhaps to have something to sell later, make some money, have a little nest egg to help with nursing home fees?

Unless you left schooling early, you'd have been in higher education still when she was dumped. You weren't working down the pits or in a steelworks, or a dockyard. So your suffering can have been at most at one remove.You'd have most likely been enjoying your free university education..congratulations if you understood socio-economics, politics and had a grasp of the real world too at that age. I sure as hell didn't.

I can list f*ck ups by Blair and Brown which have/will have consequences beyond anything Thatcher did. But the protesting here was minimal, and some of you even voted them back in afterwards. I just think the majority of you enjoy Tory-bashing more than you care about the poor or oppressed.

DeWinter wrote: I just think the majority of you enjoy Tory-bashing more than you care about the poor or oppressed.

Oh come on!

And yes, while NuLab under Blair and Brown was Thatcherism-lite in a lot of ways, there is a big difference between "bad" and "worse". We're going to find out just how bad "worse" can get over the next few years. They're already shifting the tax burden from the rich to the poor.

DeWinter wrote: Unless you left schooling early, you'd have been in higher education still when she was dumped.

no, i wasn't. i was well out of uni by the time she was dumped. i'm happy to say that despite my advancing years, i DO remember what i was doing at that time. i can even remember my date of birth.

@ Ness - i didn't mean that selling off council houses was right. it certainly wasn't. i was just pondering on what those that bought them might have been thinking - it seemed to me that they were being blamed for the problems it created.

markfiend wrote: Oh come on!

And yes, while NuLab under Blair and Brown was Thatcherism-lite in a lot of ways, there is a big difference between "bad" and "worse". We're going to find out just how bad "worse" can get over the next few years. They're already shifting the tax burden from the rich to the poor.

I think it's a legit point!. I've said before that many of "the left" for want of a better term would have been squealing like penetrated choirboys had the Tory party been in power over the past 13 years and done the things Labour has. As it was Labour they just grumbled.
I've heard little mention of manufacturing decreasing more under the past 13 years than under Thatcher/Major for example. None of them found Blair's illegal war disgusting enough to vote him out. And we've just had an election that in some parts of the country resembled some of Africa's finest moments. Why was there no reaction? Either one of those things makes the Poll Tax look fairly innocuous. It's the only conclusion I can think of. Some kind of inherited grudge.

emilystrange: She was booted in '90. I was about 11, judging by your profile you'd be 20/21? 22 at a stretch. So I stand by my point, you can have had little experience personally of her actions, but at one remove, a family member or friend. I did too, for what it's worth. So I still don't get why you take her actions so personal. I don't.

so something has to have happened to me personally to make my dislike of her actions valid? it 'doesn't count' unless it happened to ME?
you know nothing about my personal circumstances, and you're making an awful lot of conjectures. 'you can have had little experience...' htf do you know that?
i am entitled to dislike thatcherism HOWEVER it affected me.
on whatever level.

Of course if something doesn't effect someone personally why should they care, have opinion, or feel passionately about it.

Sums up the time and person really.

But what would I know I loathe the conservative party, own shiny amercian IT equipment and have never been a miner.

One thing I gotta know what do you right leaning / tory / capitalist types get from this band and the songs??

A bold and courageous leader if there ever was one. If only she were fit enough to do it again today.

Europa wrote:One thing I gotta know what do you right leaning / tory / capitalist types get from this band and the songs??

They sound good. Next question?

One thing I gotta know what do you right leaning / tory / capitalist types get from this band and the songs??

Yes. They sound good. Also, I have never associated The Sisters with being an overly political band - not in the NMA, Levellers sense anyway. Sure, Reptile House and VT were fairly political, but most of the recorded output - and the Sisters songs I really like - are about drugs, sex or Andrew's mummy. Sometimes all 3.

I also think Andy's a bit of hypocrite when he proclaims to be left wing. Clearly he's made a lot of money over the years, clearly he's lived out of the country to avoid paying the high UK tax rates, and clearly he's been fairly 'greedy', even racing to release a record to get the $25k he got for releasing The Sisterhood album, or releasing a 'best of' album so he can get a new Mercedes. Doesn't sound vert left wing to me.

Judge by actions, not lyrics.

"best of" was released because of high debt what he got after contract/ deal signed with East-West.

Being left wing and wanting to earn a living are not mutually incompatible you know. Bottom line is that irrespective of one's political leanings we have to deal with the reality of the world we live in, and - unless you choose to completely live outside of society (if that's even possible) - you do have to be able to afford to pay for food, clothing, shelter and other essentials. It may be slightly hypocritical for sure but it's also pragmatic.

Yes.

But there's a large difference between earning enough to have a comfortable life, and skipping town to the Channel Islands to avoid paying taxes into a system that you profess upon.

No 'slightly' in there. Its hypocritical.

But whatever. I like the noises the drummer makes....

Now I love a good political debate as much as the next keyboard warrior, but I don't think I'm capable of seriously engaging with the people who call themselves things like "the inescapable truth", or resort to such sixth-form soapbox language as "clearly oblivious to the truth". Classic stuff - the barrel-scraping ravings of someone who has serious difficulty constructing a genuine argument. Don't give this kind of trolling credence by treating it as an impassioned debate. It's not. It's a self-righteous rant.

Note the obsession with "truth" in all this, and the conviction of those bandying the word about that they have a handle on it. 1st sign of a tubthumping nutter. Second sign is spending precious hours of your life talking to people on the internet whose worldview you apparently despair of, in some vain attempt to make them think what you think.

You guys aren't here to connect with like-minded people, that much is clear. Don't despair though! There are places for people just like you!

You might even get a girlfriend!