Heartland

Back in time wrote:

Gollum's Cock wrote:

czuczu wrote:Threatening to ban people for asking questions, really?

Seconded.

*sigh* The ban threat was not for "asking questions".

IMO dummkopf went about this in totally the wrong way. His thread was a personal attack on Burzum and tantamount to a public accusation of being a neo-nazi, based solely on the fact that he doesn't like the user-name. Throwing around unfounded accusations is what got me angry.

I'm starting to get sick of this, but there's obviously no point locking the thread, someone will only just open up another.

Well Fiendy's right ain't he. The thing has to cut both ways. I'm thinking that accusations of being neo-nazi scum are not the kind of things to be thrown around lightly, and had better be backed up by some serious hard evidence if one is going to do so.

Maybe some people don't remember (or weren't around for) the whole "New Order are nazis" thing in the 80s. Front 242 had to print disclaimers in their CDs. Reference was made to the Sisters. This is the kind of muck that can stick, so caution seems advisable.

mh wrote:
Maybe some people don't remember (or weren't around for) the whole "New Order are nazis" thing in the 80s.

& even before that

mh wrote:Well Fiendy's right ain't he. The thing has to cut both ways. I'm thinking that accusations of being neo-nazi scum are not the kind of things to be thrown around lightly, and had better be backed up by some serious hard evidence if one is going to do so.

Maybe some people don't remember (or weren't around for) the whole "New Order are nazis" thing in the 80s. Front 242 had to print disclaimers in their CDs. Reference was made to the Sisters. This is the kind of muck that can stick, so caution seems advisable.

Thanks.

Also...

Being645 wrote:Also, I remember The Sisters had some repercussions in that direction as well. It's not for nothing they released their Sisters Gegen Nazis patch as every UTR reader should be able to recall ...

Quite right. The "Sisters Gegen Nazis" thing didn't happen for nothing.

===========================

But what's the right way to deal with neo-nazis? Witch-hunts, baseless accusations, users disappearing into the Nacht und Nebel? I don't think so.

markfiend wrote: But what's the right way to deal with neo-nazis? Witch-hunts, baseless accusations, users disappearing into the Nacht und Nebel? I don't think so.

Yeah, it's funny how fascists, anti-facsists and people who wouldn't count themselves among any of these,
all avail themselves of the same fascist means at times, and often enough without being aware.

Anyway, I'd rather have some intermediary and temporary commotion clear things up,
than have growing resentment and distrust silently make or fear schemes ...

Apparently, our species does get involved in witch-hunts, baseless accusations and
fellow-creature disappearances somewhat by nature ... but as well we live to learn, I think.


----------------------------------------------------
We forget as we forgive.

Another example: KISS had accusations of being fascists because of the visual similarity between their logo and the SS runic-style badge.

Particularly ironic given that Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons are both Jewish.

The accusation that KISS are in fact pish is a different matter.

markfiend wrote: IMO dummkopf went about this in totally the wrong way. His thread was a personal attack on Burzum and tantamount to a public accusation of being a neo-nazi, based solely on the fact that he doesn't like the user-name. Throwing around unfounded accusations is what got me angry.

I'm starting to get sick of this, but there's obviously no point locking the thread, someone will only just open up another.

Mark, how did you make your assessment? I thought it little more than an ironic statement and personally felt the usual suspects attacks on dummkopf more offensive. But that's the internet for you

For all it's worth, I wasn't questioning let alone attacking the person behind the nick.

TTFN

KISS take pish to new depths

paint it black wrote:

For all it's worth, I wasn't questioning let alone attacking the person behind the nick.

immediately followed by

I was asking what the general take is on promoting artists who's sole artistic drive is to spread racially motivated hate. In my book, picking a certain nick equals 'promoting'. It is a statement, just like adopting the number 88 for a user account name.

Looks pretty accusatory to me.

Should i feel stupid that Death in June was mine greatest music discover of this year? And how about band called Nacht und Nebel, both Belgiun and local band from Poland?

And this quote from A.E. it's just briliant, as you toke that from mine mouth. And i even said this aloud, but not here.

I think that i can with 103% of sure can say that we all here, from right wingers centers liberals and left wingers, are far away from symphating Nazism or Fascism and even Comunism.

Bartek wrote:I think that i can with 103% of sure can say that we all here, from right wingers centers liberals and left wingers, are far away from symphating Nazism or Fascism and even Comunism.

I agree. Totally.

Can we let this subject drop now please?

Having said that, I'm not going to lock this thread; after all, I think I owe dummkopf a right to reply, if nothing else.

To put in my Reichmark :-

If you accept that Democracy (for all its faults) is absolutely splendid and has to be the best way to run a country and is one one of the most brilliant ideas that humanity has come up with. then you have to expect that some people are stupid and don't see how wonderful it is. But, being a demoracy they are entitled to hold their daft views and call themselves crypto-nazis / pseudo-nazis / neo-nazis / death-metal-nazis etc. That is their right and as long as they stay in the minority who gives a toss.

The second point is that one needs to differentiate between the art and the artist i.e Wagner, Orff and Gary Glitter

Thirdly, although two chaps were quick to dismiss the artistic efforts of KISS they were both reverential enough to type their name in capitals

I thought KISS was meant to be an acronym? Knights in Satan's Service?

I thought it was more likely - Keep It Simple Stupid

markfiend wrote:I thought KISS was meant to be an acronym? Knights in Satan's Service?

I always thought Kids in Satan's Service.....
Consistency is wat gets in the way of Neo-post satanic nazis getiing their message across.

markfiend wrote:I thought KISS was meant to be an acronym? Knights in Satan's Service?

oh fiendish one, I expect better of you than that, everyone kens it's Krap In Stupid Slap!

and permission to treat the witness dumbkopf as hostile, yer 'onner?

James Blast wrote:

markfiend wrote:I thought KISS was meant to be an acronym? Knights in Satan's Service?

oh fiendish one, I expect better of you than that, everyone kens it's Krap In Stupid Slap!

I must admit I hadn't heard that one.

James Blast wrote:and permission to treat the witness dumbkopf as hostile, yer 'onner?

Better not. Benefit of the doubt and all that.

is that an 'overruled' or a 'sustained'?

I watch far too much Law & Order (Laura Norder as you rightwing Eenglish Natzis pronounce it) and I still dinna ken whit either wan means

I think it's only objections that can be overruled or sustained?

</PerryMason>

I am objecting


it's an open goal guys, kick it...

Back in time wrote:

Gollum's Cock wrote:

czuczu wrote:I don't think I know/have met Burzum, dummkopf or eotunun. I've not heard of the band Burzum and I'm willing to bet neither have the majority of people here because, lets be fair, they're going to be extremely niche at best....

Anyway, I look at at everyone's previous posts and can't see anything inflammatory but I am curious because its obviously a sensitive subject. If someone has a dubious username then call them on it, there's no harm in that - its not a given name after all , they chose it for themselves so should be be able to explain why they chose it.

Threatening to ban people for asking questions, really?

Seconded.

ok guys so here we go.
I've done a lot of thinking on this matter over the week end.
And I must say that the football results were even more depressing than the thread.

So here we go:
- in case this is not clear, I am not a fascist, nazi, communist, integrist etc... whatsoever. The only idea I could be associated with this i quite unbearable, due to my personal and family experience, as I said in another topic.
- Burzum is not me. And sorry to say that, but if the guy has the IQ of an oyster, it's more his problem than mine. Sorry to repeat myself, but I still think you can appreciate an artist for its art even if he's a total asshole. When you go to the restaurant, do you ask for the political / religious views of the chef? No, you don't (and the guy's feeding you), but when you're behind your computer screen, you feel free to do so. It's sad.
- Burzum is (still) not me, it's an avatar. So it's meaningless for me. You would feel happier if I changed it? To be honest, I don't give a s**t. I'll change it. And I will not even ask the people who have vomited on me to do so, even they claim to be coming from "a punk background", i.e; the people who made swastika armbands fashion again.

I am sorry it some people among you guys have felt offended by this pseudo. That was not my intention. And unlike others, I have never taken this forum for a political stage. Funny how the ones lecturing people can't even clean up their own mess.
Seditious? Read my posts, they were sooooooooo 3rd reich friendly.
I want to thank all the people (and you are quite a few) that have emailed me over the week end. You are definately nice folks.

I would consider as a noraml gesture that Dumkopf changes his nickname, because:
- I find it very offensive
- we are not allowed anymore to have nicknames that reflect who we are/supposed to be.

I was considering Adolfin as a new nickname, but I think it is too obvious a tribute to the sea creatures.
So I will try and change it to Bertran De Born. I am sure you will appreciate the p*ss.
Now, I have to try and find how to change it....

nice to see you again Burz

Oh, apparrently I owe dummkopf an apology for repeatedly calling her him.

If you're serious about changing your username Burzum then I think I can do it for you...

markfiend I wholeheartedly agree to both of your posts (the serious ones, not the ones about Kiss).
When I was in Leeds at the Sisters gigs earlier this year, I bought a book of Bertrand Russell with the essay "Nice People", and since, it haunts me. The essay was written against "good Christians", but it really applies to so many situations today, especially the situations where you think you are morally right and the other would deserve being exposed, put under pressure, etc.

Quite like million voices I think that every group, society, mini-society like this forum can take a few "weird" ones without a problem. That's life, that's democracy. Maybe reading John N. Gray recently wasn't good for me, but I'm afraid that trying to get rid of the "bad elements" brings only terror and another fascism.

I wonder if it's so hard to understand the difference between "asking a question" and starting a public denunciation out of the nowhere.
If you really just want to ask a question, there are so many ways to do it respectful. "Hey guys, how do you feel when people make references to bands like Burzum or Death In June?" for example.

@Bartek - yes you should! well... I have their albums too, but then I discovered that they stole EVERYTHING from Lee Hazlewood, including the lower-tuned 12 string guitar. Go and listen to some Nancy + Lee.

hi Markfiend,
If you can do it for me that would be great, because i'm getting nervous on my keyboard as we speak.

BTW, that was Burzum's 100 th post. What a blaze of glory.