Heartland

Husek wrote:And here it's another Von credited work
http://is.gd/8pucCc

"streets of shame" - presumably that was a working title for the end segment to UTG then?

Adam Ant has registered literally dozens of songs, none of them have seen the light of a proper release yet. He hasn't released a new song since 1995.

So this could mean absolutely nothing.

Aazhyd wrote:Adam Ant has registered literally dozens of songs, none of them have seen the light of a proper release yet. He hasn't released a new song since 1995.

So this could mean absolutely nothing.

You say it.
Also, no registrations for Still or Arms not to mention Far Parade seem to exist as yet ...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the missing tracks (War On Drugs, Come Together, Still, Arms, anything else?) were either Von solo compositions or involved current members of the band? If so there's probably a very innocent explanation - like different members having different publishing deals or summat.

Dan wrote:

stufarq wrote:

Fodderstompf wrote:I found it interesting that Pearson handed in a demo of the song...

Who says he did? He doesn't need to supply a demo for the song to be protected. A demo needn't even exist. He just has to have written it.

Presumably because it says "duration: 3:10 min" for that one so there's an assumption that some sort of recording was handed in.

Fair point. Also, it occurred to me later that there has to be some documented form of the song before it's eligible for a copyright and, as most bands don't write down the music, there would probably have to be a publisher's demo.

Being645 wrote:if I had a band and had played, written songs, travelled the world together with someone for almost a decade ... I would never come to the idea to release these songs as my official band produce when this person were gone. Sorry, no. Not even if I were allowed to - just a question of tact and taste.

But it happens all the time. Band members leave, the rest of the band record the songs they co-wrote before they left. It's the way of the world and the ex-band member rarely objects because they get a royalty fee out of it.

mh wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the missing tracks (War On Drugs, Come Together, Still, Arms, anything else?) were either Von solo compositions or involved current members of the band? If so there's probably a very innocent explanation - like different members having different publishing deals or summat.

Or just not having gotten around to it.

lazarus corporation wrote:Putting aside all attempts to talk about morality/ethics in the same breath as "record companies", this is how the law works:

The composer of a song has the right under law to decide who will record the first version of that song. This is called "first issue rights" or "premiere rights".

Possibly the most famous use of this law involved a recording of "Mr. Tambourine Man" by Bob Dylan. Dylan had played the song at a gig at a festival, which has been recorded. Dylan's record company (Columbia) wanted to release the gig, but Dylan wasn't happy with it for some reason. Unfortunately Dylan's record contract at the time didn't allow him any veto on what was released. So Dylan used his first issue rights to refuse to grant Columbia the license to release the first version of "Mr. Tambourine Man" and the album was stopped.

This also means that the various song composers within the Sisters could use their first issue rights to stop other bands releasing cover versions of new Sisters songs that have not yet had official releases.

(Once a song has been officially released then it's a completely different legal situation)

That law only applies in the US, where they have compuslory licences to prevent anyone having a monopoly on pianola rolls (no, really). Pretty much everywhere else in the world you need the copyright owner's permission to record their song. If you're a joint copyright owner (eg you co-wrote the music with someone else) you need each other's permission and anyone else needs permission from both of you. Or, more realistically, from your publishers, who administer the rights on your behalf and may well have a stake in the copyright as part of the crippling deal they struck with you.

Being645 wrote:And honestly, whatever today's standards of capitalist commerce - if I had a band and had played, written songs,
travelled the world together with someone for almost a decade ... I would never come to the idea to release these
songs as my official band produce when this person were gone. Sorry, no. Not even if I were allowed to
- just a question of tact and taste.

Nonsense, they can be on Sisters Anthology Vol.3. The writers/composers/etc all get paid their fair share and everyone's happy.

Dan wrote:

Being645 wrote:And honestly, whatever today's standards of capitalist commerce - if I had a band and had played, written songs,
travelled the world together with someone for almost a decade ... I would never come to the idea to release these
songs as my official band produce when this person were gone. Sorry, no. Not even if I were allowed to
- just a question of tact and taste.

Nonsense, they can be on Sisters Anthology Vol.3. The writers/composers/etc all get paid their fair share and everyone's happy.

... money is not everything ...

So are these new Sis-songs or not?

Machine Regime wrote:So are these new Sis-songs or not?

Of course they are ... registered and everything ... ... quite some time ago though, and not released ... err, officially ...

Being645 wrote:

Machine Regime wrote:So are these new Sis-songs or not?

Of course they are ... registered and everything ... ... quite some time ago though, and not released ... err, officially ...

So I guess he'll have only sung to these songs in pianola-accompanied fireside knees-ups with god-fearing close friends and loved ones, the way nature intended. And us, peering in through a frosted window pane in the background, in the hope of His Cruelness throwing our way just a mere sonic breadbrumb of said unreleased copyrighted treats...

Machine Regime wrote:

Being645 wrote:

Machine Regime wrote:So are these new Sis-songs or not?

Of course they are ... registered and everything ... ... quite some time ago though, and not released ... err, officially ...

So I guess he'll have only sung to these songs in pianola-accompanied fireside knees-ups with god-fearing close friends and loved ones, the way nature intended. And us, peering in through a frosted window pane in the background, in the hope of His Cruelness throwing our way just a mere sonic breadbrumb of said unreleased copyrighted treats...

... ... on due payment, and off back to the road ... ... just like all those gypsies, tramps and thieves ... ...

Machine Regime wrote: I wonder - is there any working artist who has more contempt for their fanbase than AE? There's George Lucas, I guess, but I don't think making a brace of s**t movies in the last ten odd years was deliberate... he just doesn't have what it takes any more. Whereas with Von... we count ourselves lucky that he still tours and that the material is tight, but way old (save Arms, but even that's getting a bit long in the tooth now, and isn't exactly Mozart). But should we? Would it actually be better for us if AE stopped touring altogether, let us grieve and move on? Yes, no-one forces us to keep following the Sisters, but I wonder if it's time we all really did show AE that we've basically felt the p*ss has been taken out of us long enough. Those of you who disagree, I respect your position, and would never have something taken away from you that contributes to your happiness, but I think we're being had.

Its now a fairly mainstream opinion that the music industry has been taking artists for mugs for many years, and that musicians can make far more money through merchandise and touring than they will ever see from album sales. Eldo obviously came to this conclusion far earlier than many, being a smart cookie. The problem being however, that the band were never any great shakes live, so the past decade or so has been a bit of a disappointing experience.
I expect the reason he wont release anything is that no label capable of funding a stint in the studio is ready to offer him the money he considers appropriate for the effort taken. I also suspect that if Cleopatra or some Mitteleuropean label run by people with stripey knee socks, neon dredlocks and piercings in their faces offered him a deal, he would refuse out of principle.

DeWinter wrote:I expect the reason he wont release anything is that no label capable of funding a stint in the studio is ready to offer him the money he considers appropriate for the effort taken.

Indeed. And he makes enough from touring that he doesn't need the money (or hassle) of making a new album.

DeWinter wrote:I also suspect that if Cleopatra or some Mitteleuropean label run by people with stripey knee socks, neon dredlocks and piercings in their faces offered him a deal, he would refuse out of principle.

Exactly.

I'm not sure Eldo's all that concerned with principles these days, just a nice fat pension - or as fat as possible - and who can blame him? Ah well, at least the Sisters still exist at all.

DeWinter wrote:musicians can make far more money through merchandise and touring than they will ever see from album sales. Eldo obviously came to this conclusion far earlier than many, being a smart cookie.

This is only smart if people actually know your band still exists. A record is still a great and necessary marketing publicity tool.

Also you're trying to say that Eldritch has foreseen this all and deliberately did not release a new album because of it. I think that's quite unlikely, considering the number of gigs they do and the number of actual merchandise that we can get.

Has a recording been a necessary marketing tool for the Sisters though? They seem to be collecting a steady paycheck as it is, and if anything, the audiences seem to be growing of late.

If they released a decent album, they would gain much more publicity, fans and last but not least, money.

Aazhyd wrote:If they released a decent album, they would gain much more publicity, fans and last but not least, money.

I don't think they need to expand their fanbase.
I Mean, 'everbody' know the sisters somehow, almost all magazines in the world call them 'The Goth Masters/Godfather of Goths', and we have 3 excellent albums already.
What i can say? They already have Mon(k)ey and Stuff.
Yes, would be nice a new album, but fans/publicity isn't a good reason to record it.

Husek wrote:I Mean, 'everbody' know the sisters somehow

No they don't. Hardly anyone I know has even heard of them - especially anyone under the age of about 35.

stufarq wrote:

Husek wrote:I Mean, 'everbody' know the sisters somehow

No they don't. Hardly anyone I know has even heard of them - especially anyone under the age of about 35.

Funny, how times change and what people one gets used to and surrounded with ... ... Hope you're happy with where you are now.


@Husek
I think you are quite right. Almost all magazines in the world know them - and these old stories.
Recently, most of them have even learned to overcome and look beyond that outworn Goth-Overlord-Thingy.

Husek wrote:Yes, would be nice a new album, but fans/publicity isn't a good reason to record it.

It's saddening, that people more or less automatically get deprived of maybe their deepest source of joy
and their best (sometimes even their only) means of expression/reflection/recreation as soon as it turns
into a f**king business. And I'm refering here to musicians and listeners alike.

They are surely not immune against frustration, but never ever have The Sisters given
in to releasing stuff only to comply with whatever sort of demand! Not even with SSV ... ...
And there is absolutely no reason to do so now.

Anyway, we had a great tour over here in Europe and now they're going to play NZ and Australia ... ...
and South America of course, like all great bands do nowadays. And The Sisters take a special joy
in playing all those far away places. Off they are and we already miss them ... seems there's no way
round endless forgiving for them, as some of us will apparently never be able to take that without complaining ... ...

stufarq wrote:

Husek wrote:I Mean, 'everbody' know the sisters somehow

No they don't. Hardly anyone I know has even heard of them - especially anyone under the age of about 35.

Funny, how times change and what people one gets used to and surrounded with ... ... Hope you're happy with where you are now.


@Husek
I think you are quite right. Almost all magazines in the world know them - and these old stories.
Recently, most of them have even learned to overcome and look beyond that outworn Goth-Overlord-Thingy.

Husek wrote:Yes, would be nice a new album, but fans/publicity isn't a good reason to record it.

It's saddening, that people more or less automatically get deprived of maybe their deepest source of joy
and their best (sometimes even their only) means of expression/reflection/recreation as soon as it turns
into a f**king business. And I'm referring here to musicians and listeners alike.

They are surely not immune against frustration, but never ever have The Sisters given
in to releasing stuff only to comply with whatever sort of demand! Not even with SSV ... ...
And there is absolutely no reason to do so now.

Anyway, we had a great tour over here in Europe and now they're going to play NZ and Australia ... ...
and South America of course, like all great bands do nowadays. And The Sisters take a special joy
in playing all those far away places. Off they are and we already miss them ... seems there's no way
round endless forgiving for them, as some of us will apparently never be able to take that without complaining ... ...

Being645 wrote:

stufarq wrote:

Husek wrote:I Mean, 'everbody' know the sisters somehow

No they don't. Hardly anyone I know has even heard of them - especially anyone under the age of about 35.

Funny, how times change and what people one gets used to and surrounded with ... ... Hope you're happy with where you are now.


@Husek
I think you are quite right. Almost all magazines in the world know them - and these old stories.

Magazines aren't a fanbase and they certainly aren't everybody.

And funnily enough, being happy where I am now doesn't remotely depend on whether anyone I know has heard of a band I like.

The longer the wait, we shift from Chinese Democracy to The Weirdness.

copper wrote:The longer the wait, we shift from Chinese Democracy to The Weirdness.

You mean from overworked, mediocre and dull to terrible and out of key?

Honestly, it seems unlikely to me. I doubt they'll do it anyway, but if they (he) did, I'd actually expect it to be pretty good at a minimum. I'm quite confident that a fine record can come from TSOM. I just highly doubt that it actually will (or anything else for that matter).