Heartland

[quote="markfiend"]Can we change the topic title from "stupid people" to "evil people"?

Because that's what that kind of bigotry is. Evil.[/quote

Evil people have (flawed) brains. This guy doesn't have a brain.

I work with a guy with similar views. The fact that he sincerely believes we are on the brink of a zombie invasion (I'm being serious here) says it all about him. He's 28.

markfiend wrote:Can we change the topic title from "stupid people" to "evil people"?

Because that's what that kind of bigotry is. Evil.

Name calling just turns those wrong more against you. They are ignorant at best. Reasoned argument is the key, not buzzwords.

splintered thing wrote: Too true. And if MY Queen would grant me a BRITISH passport, I would conspire to rectify the situation immediately!

I'm pretty sure the Queen doesn't do the passports herself.

stufarq wrote:

splintered thing wrote: Too true. And if MY Queen would grant me a BRITISH passport, I would conspire to rectify the situation immediately!

I'm pretty sure the Queen doesn't do the passports herself.

himself.

DeWinter wrote:

markfiend wrote:Can we change the topic title from "stupid people" to "evil people"?

Because that's what that kind of bigotry is. Evil.

Name calling just turns those wrong more against you. They are ignorant at best. Reasoned argument is the key, not buzzwords.

WRONG!
People who strongly belives in what they're saying will not change their mind because of rational arguments - it's like with religion or even worst - you can try but, what you'll probably achieve it simple "go to hell" or, if they're polite, simple "you can say what you want but, this is what i believe".

zaltys7 wrote: Work mate: Water is free, it comes out of the sky ...

If it is so, he might fill his pool freely with rainwater instead of supplies through water pipes ... and of course pay for the disposal of his chlorine contaminated effluents ... just in case, he wouldn't want to water his garden with them.

DeWinter wrote:Name calling just turns those wrong more against you. They are ignorant at best. Reasoned argument is the key, not buzzwords.

I know that Paul's workmate isn't in the same league as Pol Pot.

However, this sort of low-grade unthinking bigotry contributes to the toxic atmosphere that makes some group of racists think that it's OK to (for example) stab Stephen Lawrence to death. If the low-grade racism isn't challenged, the racists will interpret your silence as tacit approval.

OK we may disagree on tactics, you can call what I'm saying "name calling", and I suppose there might be some validity in that, but if someone said to me the sort of thing that Paul's workmate said in the first post I would respond with "you f*cking bigot". People ought to be ashamed to show this sort of attitude in public.

Another thought:

DeWinter wrote:Name calling just turns those wrong more against you.

Bigots are already "against me". If you don't stand up to them, the bullies have won.

It is my contention that the "ignore it and it will go away" school of thought is demonstrably incorrect. But don't just take my word for it...

More and more I feel that the people of ill will have used time much more effectively than have the people of good will. We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people. Human progress never rolls in on wheels of inevitability; it comes through the tireless efforts of men willing to be co workers with God, and without this hard work, time itself becomes an ally of the forces of social stagnation. We must use time creatively, in the knowledge that the time is always ripe to do right.

Save Water-Drink Vodka

weebleswobble wrote:Save Water-Drink Vodka

Wise words my friend.

markfiend wrote:
However, this sort of low-grade unthinking bigotry contributes to the toxic atmosphere that makes some group of racists think that it's OK to (for example) stab Stephen Lawrence to death. If the low-grade racism isn't challenged, the racists will interpret your silence as tacit approval.

OK we may disagree on tactics, you can call what I'm saying "name calling", and I suppose there might be some validity in that, but if someone said to me the sort of thing that Paul's workmate said in the first post I would respond with "you f*cking bigot". People ought to be ashamed to show this sort of attitude in public.

Thing is, what has the guy said that's wrong? A million people less would greatly ease the pressure on our infrastructure surely? As for the illegals, he's greatly underestimating the number, since back when I worked in that department, spouses and children werent counted in official figures. So what exactly is your issue with what he said it's true but it makes you uncomfortable?
You cannot be surprised at low level resentment after near four decades of large scale migration against the peoples wishes. Would it not be more sensible to direct this guys attention to those behind it, the CBI and the government itself, rather than get in a lather?

Quiff Boy wrote:

stufarq wrote:

splintered thing wrote: Too true. And if MY Queen would grant me a BRITISH passport, I would conspire to rectify the situation immediately!

I'm pretty sure the Queen doesn't do the passports herself.

himself.

The Queen's a man? Or has someone in the passport office been coming to work in drag?

stufarq wrote:

Quiff Boy wrote:

stufarq wrote: I'm pretty sure the Queen doesn't do the passports herself.

himself.

The Queen's a man? Or has someone in the passport office been coming to work in drag?

from what i've heard she's a male reptoid

DeWinter wrote: You cannot be surprised at low level resentment after near four decades of large scale migration against the peoples wishes.

Not sure where to start on a comment like that - "Large scale migration" - really ?? "Against the people's wishes" ?? A few misguided souls who turn up on Louis theroux documentaries maybe, but "the people" ?? Even by your standards, this is some sweeping unfounded generalisation !

today I had an argument when trying to convince they guy I was working with, 3 pairs does not equal 8. I gave up and did the task myself

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote: Not sure where to start on a comment like that - "Large scale migration" - really ?? "Against the people's wishes" ?? A few misguided souls who turn up on Louis theroux documentaries maybe, but "the people" ?? Even by your standards, this is some sweeping unfounded generalisation !

When even St Polly Toynbee of Fantasyland is writing articles criticising current levels, I think I can safely call it large scale without fear of being accused of bigotry by anyone sane or not Gordon Brown. I can understand a debate on the positives and negatives of it, but I am mildly surprised anyone actually denies it happening.
As for public opinion/consent, you're welcome to show me where it was asked and positive opinions on migration levels. Facts have a nasty habit of remaining so, wether you like them or not. You cannot undertake a major social experiment, be it multiculturalism or Europe without asking the public for their consent first. It will lead, and is leading to trouble.

DeWinter wrote:

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote: Not sure where to start on a comment like that - "Large scale migration" - really ?? "Against the people's wishes" ?? A few misguided souls who turn up on Louis theroux documentaries maybe, but "the people" ?? Even by your standards, this is some sweeping unfounded generalisation !

When even St Polly Toynbee of Fantasyland is writing articles criticising current levels, I think I can safely call it large scale without fear of being accused of bigotry by anyone sane or not Gordon Brown. As for public opinion/consent, you're welcome to show me where it was asked and positive opinions on migration levels. Facts have a nasty habit of remaining so, wether you like them or not.

If you want to talk about facts, you might be interested to know that more people emigrated from the UK then migrated to it as recently as the last Sisters release. Net migration has increased since then but has never breached 250, 000 in a year. Germany, Belgium, Sweden and many other European countries have a higher percentage of citizens born outwith their borders than the UK. I have not accused you of bigotry - just of being factually inaccurate.

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote: If you want to talk about facts, you might be interested to know that more people emigrated from the UK then migrated to it as recently as the last Sisters release. ...

By definition, that's ancient history. When was that, the neolithic?

markfiend wrote: If the low-grade racism isn't challenged, the racists will interpret your silence as tacit approval.

Very right, in as far as that's exactly what the German Kohl-government had thought when they based their election campaign in 1998 on putting pressure and fear upon the people by humiliating the unemployed, the migrants and the asylum-seekers ...

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:
If you want to talk about facts, you might be interested to know that more people emigrated from the UK then migrated to it as recently as the last Sisters release. Net migration has increased since then but has never breached 250, 000 in a year. Germany, Belgium, Sweden and many other European countries have a higher percentage of citizens born outwith their borders than the UK. I have not accused you of bigotry - just of being factually inaccurate.

I think net migration excelling the entire population of a medium size city regularly does entitle me to use the phrase mass. And according to wiki, 74 percent of people polled agreed with Powell's speeches at the time, and the BBC claim the majority of people surveyed backed BNP policies until told they were in fact so. Kind of backs me up. According to the ONS and The Guardian, it's been at record levels for the past eight years. The figures aren't reliable as they only show legal, but if emigration exceeded migration any time after a brief period I'd be surprised. Now bear in mind most are attracted to the SE and very little improvement in infrastructure, trouble ensues. As I said at the beginning its not the major reason, but it is A reason. I was a migrant once. Bought a migrant back with me ( you should have heard me splutter when we were described as a multicultural couple!) so it would be hypocritical for me to hold opinions too severe. But I can understand people not liking it.

DeWinter wrote:the BBC claim the majority of people surveyed backed BNP policies until told they were in fact so.

Kind of backs me up. Those of us who wish to live in a fair, decent society need to push back against bigoted attitudes precisely because so many people hold them.

Two generations ago, homosexuality was illegal. And if polled, you'd probably have found that the majority supported that status quo. Now, we're on the brink of gay marriage (unless the Cat'lick bishops get their way... which seems unlikely). Do you think this change of societal attitudes happened by "reasoned arguments"? You can't reason a person out of a position they didn't arrive at by reason.

Change happened because gay people (and their supporters) got up in people's faces. People told homophobic* bigots to f*ck off. People pushed so that gradually, societal attitudes changed. (And a great deal still needs to be done.)

You don't make advances for social justice by sitting on your arse. That's the point of the MLK quote up there. If you want a fairer society, you have to do something about it, otherwise you're more of a hindrance than a help.

I know it's a cliché, but if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

* Incidentally, I mislike the word homophobia. Anti-gay bigotry isn't a "fear", it's hatred.

Quiff Boy wrote:are all aussies born knowing how to pull a pint of cheap-ass sh*t cooking-lager?

Cheeky fecker - I've got an MA

Also I don't like beer..... what do you make of that you saucy Northern fellow...

splintered thing wrote:

Quiff Boy wrote:are all aussies born knowing how to pull a pint of cheap-ass sh*t cooking-lager?

Cheeky fecker - I've got an MA

Also I don't like beer..... what do you make of that you saucy Northern fellow...

No Sheilas!

Let me in. Fine. I'll learn to like beer. Warm beer. And pork scratchings...

no one needs to like pork scratchings