Heartland

Only vinyl that melted 3 times under the pin of my deck

Enough metrics to announce it as masterpiece after 25 years of continuous listening, no other LP made this achievement

I'd say Floodland is my favourite album of all time. Funny thing is that when I got into Sisters I didn't like it as much as FALAA and VT Got wiser

Husek wrote:

nowayjose wrote:XXV years since Eldritch has released anything of quality...

Except for You Could be The One.

Erm no just no

spot778 wrote:

Husek wrote:

nowayjose wrote:XXV years since Eldritch has released anything of quality...

Except for You Could be The One.

Erm no just no

Seconded. You Could Be The One is just lovely, wonderful, joking, great.
But as great, and wonderful, and astonishing and outstanding is Doctor Jeep, is More, is Something Fast, is Vision Thing, is I Was Wrong ...
not to mention Susanne, Slept, Romeo Down, Summer, War On Drugs, Crash and Burn, Will I Dream?, Still, Arms ... well "unreleased" yeah,
but who would count by those funny categories ... ...

And UTG! Strange to think that it's been almost 20 years since the end of their finest (and last) run of records from VT to UTG. That is, longer than it took from the founding of the band to the releasing of those records.

centurionofprix wrote:And UTG! Strange to think that it's been almost 20 years since the end of their finest (and last) run of records from VT to UTG. That is, longer than it took from the founding of the band to the releasing of those records.

Maybe Andrew keeps the next wave of releases to the adolescent outbursts of his next life ... we can only hope to live at the same time again, then ... ...

Though, I for one am fed up with this one. Not again. Thanks.

Or ? ... ... maybe ... ... ...

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote: Good to see people prepared to admit that Floodland was largely The Emperor's New Clothes.

I'd love to know in what way do you mean? Is it this incarnation of The Sisters, the image, the songs, production or all of them!
It's interesting to get the perspective of someone who was fan from the early 80's and just what Floodland meant to them.
For me, This Corrosion was my gateway into them & distinctly remember finding my first bootleg cassette - Suttgart 1984 and being shocked that there was this history there...
Then from getting the music press at the time, I remember there was a lot of very annoyed fans, just as there was at VT (and Tony James in particular...) A lot of the anger hung around the 'joke' and it 'not being funny anymore' which Quietus mentions to. Was Benn Gunn really The Sisters Nostradamus?!

bangles wrote:

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote: Good to see people prepared to admit that Floodland was largely The Emperor's New Clothes.

I'd love to know in what way do you mean? Is it this incarnation of The Sisters, the image, the songs, production or all of them!

That’s a good (series of) question(s), Bangles.As you clearly imply, one’s opinion of Sisters releases is often inextricably linked to the moment one became obsessed with the band, and how subsequent albums build on that legacy.
Although the Hussey era Sisters’ recorded output had been a tad disappointing (with honourable exceptions such as SKOS, Marian and On the Wire) compared to what came before, they had continued to grow as a live band, so when I heard that Eldritch was reviving TSOM after the Sisterhood fiasco, I was ecstatic.
However, AE still seemed obsessed with outdoing Hussey whose m*****n were regularly charting, so what we got was an overly commercial pimped-up ToL pt 2 as the first release. When Floodland itself finally came out, the other Steinman track (Dominion/Mother Russia) also seemed to have more in common with the polished likes of The The than with earlier TSOM releases.
With the glorious exception of the superlative Lucretia, most of the rest of the album was shockingly poor, even by FALAA standards, with Eldritch’s mediocre talent as a tunesmith rather than just a lyricist cruelly exposed. Both Floods, Driven Like the Snow and the Neverland fragment were weak, insipid affairs, with rudimentary synth melodies, a few perfunctory acoustic guitar arpeggios, manicure synthesised bass and a drum machine which seemed to be trying to sound like real drums replacing the driving, pulsating, caterwauling noise of Adams, Marx, Hussey/Gunn and more mechanised Doktors.
In 1987 we’d had Come On Pilgrim, The Young Gods and Introduce Yourself from bands creating new sonic soundscapes. The previous incarnation of the Sisters had been at the cutting edge of the musical zeitgeist. All the production in the world couldn’t disguise the fact that although he would enjoy the commercial success he appeared to crave, with Floodland Eldritch had passed his critical peak.
Sorry for the lengthy reply, but you did ask ..

Wow. It's incredible how differently you feel about Floodland than do I. (But that's fine, obviously we're all entitled to our opinion.)

For me, Floodland is Eldritch's Meisterwerk. (Then again, this might have a great deal to do with the very valid point that "one’s opinion of Sisters releases is often inextricably linked to the moment one became obsessed with the band". Sure I was aware of FALAA before Floodland, but it was This Corrosion that first truly captivated me.)

I love the Steinman bombast (but then again I always did; I was listening to Bat out Of Hell from an alarmingly early age. And the non-Steinman tracks are, in effect, Eldritch's equivalent of Bowie's Berlin years; a series of related lyrical fragments accompanied by what you almost might call tone poems.

I actually think that Floodland goes a long way to explain Eldritch's creative block in the years since. This is a paraphrase of a review I saw elsewhere a long time ago but... when you've made the album for the end of the world, how the hell do you follow it?

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote: Both Floods, Driven Like the Snow and the Neverland fragment were weak, insipid affairs...

Yikes. I've always thought those were the high-points on the record, actually! And I would tend to say that while there have been better TSOM songs, there has never been a better LP than Floodland.

sultan2075 wrote:

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote: Both Floods, Driven Like the Snow and the Neverland fragment were weak, insipid affairs...

Yikes. I've always thought those were the high-points on the record, actually! And I would tend to say that while there have been better TSOM songs, there has never been a better LP than Floodland....

Seconded, the above statement can only be a joke ...
Although, FALAA and Vision Thing are as great to me.

there has never been a better LP than Floodland....

Still sounds great today.

Cheers.

Being645 wrote:

sultan2075 wrote:

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote: Both Floods, Driven Like the Snow and the Neverland fragment were weak, insipid affairs...

Yikes. I've always thought those were the high-points on the record, actually! And I would tend to say that while there have been better TSOM songs, there has never been a better LP than Floodland....

Seconded, the above statement can only be a joke ..

No, just a different opinion to yours. Another main reason for such opposing views are the influences one shares with
. I was always much more of a Stooges than a Stevie Nicks man, but there will be many here who are the opposite. Going back to Bangles' question, it's easy to see where Gunn/Marx et al were coming from when you listen to Floodland .

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:

Being645 wrote:

sultan2075 wrote: Yikes. I've always thought those were the high-points on the record, actually! And I would tend to say that while there have been better TSOM songs, there has never been a better LP than Floodland....

Seconded, the above statement can only be a joke ..

No, just a different opinion to yours. Another main reason for such opposing views are the influences one shares with
. I was always much more of a Stooges than a Stevie Nicks man, but there will be many here who are the opposite. Going back to Bangles' question, it's easy to see where Gunn/Marx et al were coming from when you listen to Floodland .

Oh, I understand ... ... though I think the influences on all involved go back beyond The Stooges or Stevie Nicks to for example Pink Floyd ... ...

Funny. After more than 30 years of TSOM, you think you know everything by now, but that excellent article learned me a few new bits and pieces and give some good historical analysis.

I grew up with ToL back in 83 and got completely into FALAA which to me is the best album ever made. I find The m*****n a better follow up on that era than TSOM itself with Floodland and Vision Thing. Maybe it's because the progressive evolution between FALAA, FL and VT was too big for me. Every band has to progress and I respect Eldritch for having done that. Maybe he was too visionary for me in those days

But again, everyone has it's personal taste. You can never argue on that ...

[quote="Nikolas Vitus Lagartija"... it's easy to see where Gunn/Marx et al were coming from when you listen to Floodland .[/quote]

Entertaining answer & great points Nikolas - thanks!

Funnily enough, I think there was a quote from around 86 from one of the splitters that while they were listening to Motorhead, Von was into Fleetwood Mac - although it sounds like the quote should be the other way around?

What I find strange, (and many others may take me to task on this) is that off all the principle writers in the band, continued to evolve. I'll readily admit I'm not massively familiar with all the recorded works of the various (ahem,) sister groups -but to my ears, both Ghost Dance & The m*****n continued from where their principle writers left off in FALAA, however in both the Sisterhood & Sisters( Mk 2 or 3 depending on how you count), there are massive changes in sound and approach.
There's possibly a tangental debate on if this is an maturing of taste and/or circumstance (for both the author & listener) or a decline in ability...

In addition to when you heard it, the format can also play a part - remember the vinyl is edited by probably about 3 minutes of tone
transitions and synth solos so punches a bit harder (to me anyway) plus doesn't have Torch/Colours. Great songs - but not Floodland.

Strangely,with the exception of This Corrosion, for me (viewed perhaps crucially retrospectively) Floodland was a return if not entirely sound but feel to pre FALAA, particularly the Reptile House? It did not have that rampant commericalism that infected FALAA - even Dominion, who would have thought a hit could be sooo monotonous!

bangles wrote:Funnily enough, I think there was a quote from around 86 from one of the splitters that while they were listening to Motorhead, Von was into Fleetwood Mac - although it sounds like the quote should be the other way around?

Sounds familiar. Wayne once did the guest reviewer slot for Smash Hits, which included the new Blow Monkeys single. He said that Von liked the band, which was one of the reasons they parted company.

bangles wrote:I'll readily admit I'm not massively familiar with all the recorded works of the various (ahem,) sister groups -but to my ears, both Ghost Dance & The m*****n continued from where their principle writers left off in FALAA

In wayne's case it was largely due to fan pressure. Every time he tried to change the Mish sound or do something different (Masque, neverland, blue) sales plummeted and (a section of) fans moaned. He's often said that he felt frustrated and constrained by this and it was one of the reasons he broke the band up.

I only got into the Sisters in late 84 & so within 6 months it was all over. Throughout 85 I bought the back catalogue & numerous bootlegs & bought the Sisterhood offerings the following year & also the m*****n releases.

TBH, I thought the Sisterhood stuff was poor compared to the pre 85 output. That said I was pretty excited when the news filtered out the following year, about a return of the Sisters name & I looked forward to seeing them (whoever 'them' may consist of) live

I bought the cassette single of TC on release & my brother bought me Floodland for Christmas 87. From my earliest plays, the 3 singles & Flood II were the standout tracks & that hasn't' really changed in the 25 years that have passed. Torch/Colours/Floodland/Neverland/Driven just sounded like lazy, plodding synth versions of the Reptile House but as others have said earlier in the thread..........it's all about opinions isn't' it?

stufarq wrote:In wayne's case it was largely due to fan pressure. Every time he tried to change the Mish sound or do something different (Masque, neverland, blue) sales plummeted and (a section of) fans moaned. He's often said that he felt frustrated and constrained by this and it was one of the reasons he broke the band up.

The eternal frustratiing dichotomy of the musician/fan. Fans want a band to improve/progress but only at a rate/in a direction they are happy with. Easy to get round this conundrum by reeleasing nothing at all !

Floodland was clearly a big step forward in terms of budget/production. Whether the songs were better than what came before lyrically (lipstick on my cigarette Husseyisms, ) or musically is still a matter of debate all these years later, and it was good to see the Quietus article acknowledging this.

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:[

Floodland was clearly a big step forward in terms of budget/production. Whether the songs were better than what came before lyrically (lipstick on my cigarette Husseyisms, ) or musically is still a matter of debate all these years later, and it was good to see the Quietus article acknowledging this.

Well, on that debate - I'd have to say that Floodland is superior to FALAA lyrically...
For example, if I wanted to go toe-to-toe between both albums, for pre/post apocalyptic rave-ups, Dominion beats Black Planet hands down. (I doubt I'm going to get much further with these kind of comparisons so it's time to regretfully drop the sporting metaphors...)

Beyond Nine While Nine , Logic & Some Kind Of Stranger, I find it hard to get too excited by FALAA lyrically. Is it also a co-incidence that all the best lyrics are coupled with Gary Marx tunes...Did putting words to Gary's tunes push beyond a catchy chorus. Could this be part of the issue between the two - that Marx made work harder than he wanted?

Floodland on the otherhand moves me greatly both in imagery and wordplay. As it says it the Quietus peice states: "Lyrically, Floodland finds him tackling the subjects of geopolitics (‘Dominion/Mother Russia’), love and sex (‘Flood I’, ‘Flood II’), and revenge (‘Lucretia My Reflection’) to grand effect. This is Eldritch let loose, unencumbered by band mates refusing to share his vision."

To me the main bug bears of the article are the lack of guitars & live performances - or read another way, the absence of The Sisters as a band.

One final note on "Husseyisms," particularly the lipstick on my cigarette' variety. As these come from FALAA, is there an option for some revisionist history rewriting that these were learned while sitting at right hand?! Presumably he was writing 'Garden of Delight' with in mind, so maybe the clichés that people mock him for were his attempts at Eldritchian wordplay??? Maybe he simply didn't/doesn't have the cloak of intellectualism to pull them off...

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:[(lipstick on my cigarette Husseyisms, )

That's not a "Husseyism", it's a quote from Nine While Nine. You're rolling your eyes at Eldritch's own recycled lyric.

stufarq wrote:

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:[(lipstick on my cigarette Husseyisms, )

That's not a "Husseyism", it's a quote from Nine While Nine. You're rolling your eyes at Eldritch's own recycled lyric.

Indeed I am. It's the kind of lyrical tosh we had come to expect from Hussey ( all that flickering flame in the mirror stuff rightly mocked by ), but on the weaker tracks of Floodland AE is no better himself, hence the word Husseyism. Sorry not to have been clearer about this in my earlier post.

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:

stufarq wrote:

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:[(lipstick on my cigarette Husseyisms, )

That's not a "Husseyism", it's a quote from Nine While Nine. You're rolling your eyes at Eldritch's own recycled lyric.

Indeed I am. It's the kind of lyrical tosh we had come to expect from Hussey ( all that flickering flame in the mirror stuff rightly mocked by ), but on the weaker tracks of Floodland AE is no better himself, hence the word Husseyism. Sorry not to have been clearer about this in my earlier post.

Hello...it's Eliot replayed duh!

paint it black wrote:

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:

stufarq wrote: That's not a "Husseyism", it's a quote from Nine While Nine. You're rolling your eyes at Eldritch's own recycled lyric.

Indeed I am. It's the kind of lyrical tosh we had come to expect from Hussey ( all that flickering flame in the mirror stuff rightly mocked by ), but on the weaker tracks of Floodland AE is no better himself, hence the word Husseyism. Sorry not to have been clearer about this in my earlier post.

Hello...it's Eliot replayed duh!

"TS Eliot replayed" ? Isn't that a crossword clue for "toilets" ?
(Mis)quoting Eliot doesn't make one a great lyricist..as WH proved with "Wasteland".