Heartland

sadly it's not a one off. that sort of thing happens all the time.

there's nothing "ok" about any of this.

no means no -zero tolerance- end of.

Agreed.

Quiff Boy wrote:i do wonder if ched is being scapegoated for all the previous incident of bad behaviour by footballers...?

i'm not saying what he did is in any way excusable, but he's not the first yet we (society) are discussing his case as if he is the devil, and this is a new thing.

are we demonising him subconsciously because we (society & the law) failed to act in a sufficiently morally outraged way for all the other stupid and/or morally bankrupt young men before him?

For far too long rape has been shrugged off with a "boys will be boys" type mentality and excused with "well she was asking for it" and "it wasn't rape rape". I actually think that it's a good thing, a sign that society is changing for the better, that such a furore is being kicked up about Ched Evans's potential return to professional football.

Admittedly the sort of adverse reaction Jessica Ennis has faced for *gasp* having an opinion shows that there's a substantial reactionary rearguard action being fought. I do wonder at the motivation of the "I hope he rapes you" tweeter, and all his fellow travellers. It almost makes you think that they want the current state of affairs—where the perpetrators of less than 1% of rapes are convicted—to continue. Is it that they want to be able to get away with rape?

markfiend wrote:

Quiff Boy wrote:i do wonder if ched is being scapegoated for all the previous incident of bad behaviour by footballers...?

i'm not saying what he did is in any way excusable, but he's not the first yet we (society) are discussing his case as if he is the devil, and this is a new thing.

are we demonising him subconsciously because we (society & the law) failed to act in a sufficiently morally outraged way for all the other stupid and/or morally bankrupt young men before him?

For far too long rape has been shrugged off with a "boys will be boys" type mentality and excused with "well she was asking for it" and "it wasn't rape rape". I actually think that it's a good thing, a sign that society is changing for the better, that such a furore is being kicked up about Ched Evans's potential return to professional football.

Admittedly the sort of adverse reaction Jessica Ennis has faced for *gasp* having an opinion shows that there's a substantial reactionary rearguard action being fought. I do wonder at the motivation of the "I hope he rapes you" tweeter, and all his fellow travellers. It almost makes you think that they want the current state of affairs—where the perpetrators of less than 1% of rapes are convicted—to continue. Is it that they want to be able to get away with rape?

Entirely my thoughts. Stuff like this is happening daily, in schools, in sports clubs, when young people are having a day out ... girls (and boys) get sexually abused, often enough by more than one person while others take photos to prevent the victim from reporting betting on their shame ...
This guy Evans and his comrad seem to have continued what they learnt way before their football careers - at school, during their common socialisation. And we all know that's just how it is. Violent rape or blackmail into consent to sexual abuse is spread everywhere in societies, also within families. It's sort of normality. And there are countless perpetrators with a deep interest to leave things as they are. It's just a remains of our animal origin to behave like apes with all the territorial urination, grabbing of fuckable individuals, demonstrations of power and what ever else this involves.

words fail me.

That's beyond clueless. OK it's not word-for-word but he almost pulls out the "not rape-rape" thing I alluded to earlier.

The Guildford Four and Birmingham Six were framed by the security services. There is no evidence that they were even at the scenes of the bombings of which they were wrongfully convicted.

On the other hand Evans doesn't even deny that he fúcked the woman he was convicted of raping. As far as I can tell, his "defence" rests solely on a wilful misunderstanding of the concept of consent.

Just wanted to wind this up as a lot of you who don't follow football might still be thinking he's training with Sheffield United or that we're going to have him back.

We're not.

We've (eventually) done the right thing and washed our hands of him.

http://www.sufc.co.uk/news/article/shef ... ns-2094632.

Just wanted to clear that up.

Also, I see Tranmere Rovers have declined an approach by him.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... ark-palios

Note this bit:

Tranmere allowed Clayton McDonald, who was acquitted of rape when tried alongside Evans, to join the club on non-contract terms earlier in the season, but he was released after just one appearance.

Of course - it's "mob rule" that has prevented Mr. Evans from pursuing a career in professional football. Not, you know, the fact that he shoved his knob where it wasn't wanted, or that some clubs' fans would sooner he didn't grace their ground with his presence. What a tw@.

I'm not at all happy that his fiancee's father would have seemingly been allowed to buy him a place at Oldham.
Why is this not being investigated further? Why is is not being condemned by anyone? Even his most ardent supporters must see that this is wrong.
I want to know a lot more about that side of things.

He's toxic. So will sign for Newcastle

My understanding is that Ched Evans plans to get Oldham athletic drunk and then make them sign him anyway.....

Yeah, perhaps making rape jokes in this context isn't exactly the smartest thing to do.

EvilBastard wrote:Of course - it's "mob rule" that has prevented Mr. Evans from pursuing a career in professional football. Not, you know, the fact that he shoved his knob where it wasn't wanted, or that some clubs' fans would sooner he didn't grace their ground with his presence. What a tw@.

Allegedly of course. He still maintains his innocence.

If he is or isn't, the label is going to stick to him. I'm not sure why Oldham even pursued signing him in the first place. Did they miss the backlash at Sheffield United?

Yes, he maintains his innocence, but "he would say that, wouldn't he?"

markfiend wrote:Yes, he maintains his innocence, but "he would say that, wouldn't he?"

(Just playing Devil's advocate here but) what if he is?

Hom_Corleone wrote:

markfiend wrote:Yes, he maintains his innocence, but "he would say that, wouldn't he?"

(Just playing Devil's advocate here but) what if he is?

Well, if he is, and there's compelling new evidence that would justify his appeal, and on appeal it turns out that he was the victim of a miscarriage of justice, then the slate is wiped clean and he can return to professional football. I don't have a problem with that.

I do have a problem with "I was convicted of rape but I don't think I'm guilty and I don't see why, in light of this, I shouldn't go back to my old (very well-paid and high profile) job. I mean, why should I have to play by the same rules as everyone else?"

Let him focus on his appeal, out of the public eye, and when/if it turns out that he was innocent all along we'll all feel jolly relieved that justice has been served.

Addendum: perhaps the middle ground is to wait until after he's served his complete sentence. He's only done about half of the 5 years he was given - perhaps, for the remainder of the time that he was sentenced to he should should be doing community service, or fulfilling some other worthwhile function that will allow him to demonstrate contrition.

Hom_Corleone wrote:

EvilBastard wrote:Of course - it's "mob rule" that has prevented Mr. Evans from pursuing a career in professional football. Not, you know, the fact that he shoved his knob where it wasn't wanted, or that some clubs' fans would sooner he didn't grace their ground with his presence. What a tw@.

Allegedly of course. He still maintains his innocence.

But he was convicted, so allegedly doesn't count here.

This is true.

EvilBastard wrote:I do have a problem with "I was convicted of rape but I don't think I'm guilty and I don't see why, in light of this, I shouldn't go back to my old (very well-paid and high profile) job. I mean, why should I have to play by the same rules as everyone else?"

Exactly. If I was convicted of rape I wouldn't be able to go back to work at the university where I work, or any other for that matter.

EvilBastard wrote:Let him focus on his appeal, out of the public eye, and when/if it turns out that he was innocent all along we'll all feel jolly relieved that justice has been served.

Like I said earlier, as far as I can tell his claimed grounds for appeal seems to be "she didn't explicitly say no therefore she consented", which AFAICT is exactly the same defence he relied on in the trial in which he was found guilty. He has nothing.

What benefit does it service Steve Bruce sticking his oar in?

markfiend wrote:Yeah, perhaps making rape jokes in this context isn't exactly the smartest thing to do.

Technically, the joke is on Ched Evans and his apparent insistence that drink is the sole cause of all his problems and that stuff just happens. I do apologise if offence has been caused but I dont think we should start censoring stuff like that, especially in light of recent events.

Ched Evans recently had an offer to play for a team in Malta. A better offer than he deserves imo. He should have the good grace to take it if he wants to play football.