Heartland

The Oxford dropout rate is certainly smaller than other UK universities, but the general dropout rate is fairly small in the first place: 8.6% vs 1.6%*. And a big part of the reason for that is because Oxford actively discourage it and apparently put a lot of pressure on students not to leave or to change courses so the dropout figures look smaller.

They're also reluctant to publish information on the causes, but the most common seems to be mental health issues, largely caused by the pressure of being at Oxford.

But Eldritch is a contrary bugger and unlikely to bow to the pressure. He'd just walk out and stick two fingers up. It's not as if they could force him to stay.




*Although there's evidence Cambridge massages its figures, so Oxford probably does the same.

stufarq wrote:The Oxford dropout rate is certainly smaller than other UK universities, but the general dropout rate is fairly small in the first place: 8.6% vs 1.6%*. And a big part of the reason for that is because Oxford actively discourage it and apparently put a lot of pressure on students not to leave or to change courses so the dropout figures look smaller.

They're also reluctant to publish information on the causes, but the most common seems to be mental health issues, largely caused by the pressure of being at Oxford.

But Eldritch is a contrary bugger and unlikely to bow to the pressure. He'd just walk out and stick two fingers up. It's not as if they could force him to stay.


*Although there's evidence Cambridge massages its figures, so Oxford probably does the same.

I always thought that this history http://gps.tsom.org/history.html was written from a fairly informed perspective, and makes specific reference to Eldritch being 'sent down', which someone (on here I think) explained to me doesn't mean going to prison in this instance, but being booted out of uni.

This is turning into a good thread - have just read the Adrenochrome lyrics through and agree with Nikolas that it has to be an autobiographical tale covering Eldritch's move from Oxford to Leeds. 'Boys of the spires, are boys no more' and 'the way is clear, the road is closed, the damage done and the course imposed you' standing out in particular to me.

Mothra wrote:I always thought that this history http://gps.tsom.org/history.html was written from a fairly informed perspective, and makes specific reference to Eldritch being 'sent down', which someone (on here I think) explained to me doesn't mean going to prison in this instance, but being booted out of uni.

This is turning into a good thread - have just read the Adrenochrome lyrics through and agree with Nikolas that it has to be an autobiographical tale covering Eldritch's move from Oxford to Leeds. 'Boys of the spires, are boys no more' and 'the way is clear, the road is closed, the damage done and the course imposed you' standing out in particular to me.

Yes, sent down means being expelled from uni (as opposed to "going down", which is leaving honourably; "going up" is going to uni in the first place.) I didn't know "sent down" also meant going to prison.

The article certainly has a lot of detail, so unless it's just completely made up, it would seem to be well informed, as you say.

"Inspired by the techniques of German post-war theatre that were later to animate Sisters live shows..." Has a Sisters show ever been animated?

Oh, and the article shows it was Leeds Von left because he didn't want to go to Beijing.

Mothra wrote:

stufarq wrote:The Oxford dropout rate is certainly smaller than other UK universities, but the general dropout rate is fairly small in the first place: 8.6% vs 1.6%*. And a big part of the reason for that is because Oxford actively discourage it and apparently put a lot of pressure on students not to leave or to change courses so the dropout figures look smaller.

They're also reluctant to publish information on the causes, but the most common seems to be mental health issues, largely caused by the pressure of being at Oxford.

But Eldritch is a contrary bugger and unlikely to bow to the pressure. He'd just walk out and stick two fingers up. It's not as if they could force him to stay.


*Although there's evidence Cambridge massages its figures, so Oxford probably does the same.

I always thought that this history http://gps.tsom.org/history.html was written from a fairly informed perspective, and makes specific reference to Eldritch being 'sent down', which someone (on here I think) explained to me doesn't mean going to prison in this instance, but being booted out of uni.

This is turning into a good thread - have just read the Adrenochrome lyrics through and agree with Nikolas that it has to be an autobiographical tale covering Eldritch's move from Oxford to Leeds. 'Boys of the spires, are boys no more' and 'the way is clear, the road is closed, the damage done and the course imposed you' standing out in particular to me.

An old godsquad mate of mine told me who the Catholic girls were, so yeah

1. Absolutely - mental health is the main reason for Oxford students not finishing, or having to take a year somewhere to sort themselves out. Another option is taking their Finals while receiving treatment. Rumour has it that the Warneford (and Littlemore Mental Health Centre) in Oxford has a higher % of Firsts than any college.
Now, does this mean that AWH Taylor cracked up 77-78. Entirely possible, no? 84-85 seems to have involved a (physical) breakdown of some sort. Is it not possible that this young man was a little too tightly wound. Eldritch has talked about the journey "up river". What does this metaphor mean? Kurtz resides up river ... Is this a journey taken only through the vehicle of The Sisters of Mercy? Or does it pre-date?
2. "having tired of French and German he wanted to switch courses to Chinese, but was told he was unable to do this at Oxford." This may be BS. From
the Faculty of Oriental Studies website: "A full honours degree in the subject has been taught in Oxford since the late 1940s." So why was he not allowed to switch? Many possible reasons, but not that the course didn't exist. Did he even ask? On what authority does the GPS writer have it? Who is the GPS writer?
3. The lyrics to Adrenochrome are fabulous. I see how "course imposed", "boys of the spires" etc could be read, but there's nothing definitively autobiographical in them for me.
4. This thread is indeed now more interesting than my (coming soon) rubbish photocopy of a matriculating 18 year old Andrew Eldritch.

MAndrews wrote:Now, does this mean that AWH Taylor cracked up 77-78. Entirely possible, no? 84-85 seems to have involved a (physical) breakdown of some sort. Is it not possible that this young man was a little too tightly wound.

But it's entirely speculation and probably probing a little too far into a private life he's chosen not to make public.

MAndrews wrote:"having tired of French and German he wanted to switch courses to Chinese, but was told he was unable to do this at Oxford." This may be BS. From
the Faculty of Oriental Studies website: "A full honours degree in the subject has been taught in Oxford since the late 1940s." So why was he not allowed to switch? Many possible reasons, but not that the course didn't exist. Did he even ask? On what authority does the GPS writer have it? Who is the GPS writer?

It doesn't necessarily mean the course didn't exist, just that Oxford told Von it wouldn't be possible for him to switch to that course. There could be lots of reasons. And in fairness, the writer says it was a rumour.

In a fantastic interview in UTR 5 by Tina Jackson, Von talks at length about his studies, and says (amongst many other things) "Let's face it, the course just sucked [at Oxford]. I wanted to do Chinese and they said no, so I thought, "Well, where can I do it ?".

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:In a fantastic interview in UTR 5 by Tina Jackson, Von talks at length about his studies, and says (amongst many other things) "Let's face it, the course just sucked [at Oxford]. I wanted to do Chinese and they said no, so I thought, "Well, where can I do it ?".

https://www.myheartland.co.uk/gallery/d ... age_id=251 ... ...

I'm going to stick with my first guess: "I'd vote for something prosaic: maladjusted teenager finds themselves stuck on a course they don't like and in a university they don't care for and takes counter-measures, none of which involve lectures, tutorials or essays. Leaves by mutual consent after fixing up an exit strategy to Leeds."

Is this article available to read, elsewhere than a print UTR? Sounds fascinating. The link on the Sisters Wiki is dead, I think?

Is Eldritch a reliable narrator of his own life, do people feel? Or a specialist in smoke, mirrors and Bowie-like re-creation? The play between the two is where the fascination with rock stars of his ilk lies, no? I thought his public exploration of this Taylor-Eldritch dichotemy became more pronounced the more famous he got i.e. peaking in the early 90s - one of the reasons I like the Enormodome-era Sisters a lot. When the Sisters stopped making records, the person-persona games slowly died out. Not sure he's played them for a long, long time. "Eldritch" has been a mask rather than a window for years.

The pre-Eldritch years, 77-78 at Oxford, and his deployment of them in interviews are a really key element in the puzzle ...

Ok, just saw the link to the UTR article ...

Can’t help but think it was almost 40 years ago, let the guy have his privacy. I personal don’t want my freshman year at university scrutinized.

The photo on the other had is fair game!

EmmaPeelWannaBe wrote:Can’t help but think it was almost 40 years ago, let the guy have his privacy. I personal don’t want my freshman year at university scrutinized.

The photo on the other had is fair game!

Well said. That's what I think too.

... and that is indeed an interesting article.

Definitely chafing against 10 years of being (perceived as) Dark Lord Eldritch; "very quiet ... thoughtful" bookish, maybe even nerdy, Taylor getting a good run-out here ..

I think that mandrews has posed some really interesting questions some of which hint at Von's motivations at various stages of the 80's and are crucial to the band's history. As I have said before, he would make a great subject for Radio. 4's In The Psychiatrist's Chair. Having said that, those on that radio show are there willingly and voluntarily, and is, as others have noted, very keen to guard his privacy. I would reluctantly agree that we should probably draw this fascinating discussion to a close.

I agree. Time to put it to bed.
If Andrew wanted people to know all the ins and outs, he would've made it (part) subject of an interview.

He has done really, I guess some people are just determined to tart the story up to fit their ideas of the man.

Not wanting to add to the speculation about Andrew's mental health way back when, I'll just say that I've always been impressed by his sheer bloody-mindedness (up until he stopped making records anyway). Not many aged 18/19 would have told Oxford to stick it, gone to another uni and packed that in to fly by the seat of their pants in the squalor that the early Sisters are thought/known to have existed in.

In answer to MAndrews question regarding who wrote the GPS biography, I think it was Chris Sampson, who I think was an uber-fan who became friendly with Andrew. Don't quote me on either of those points though. Chris did write some analysis of the Adrenochrome lyrics on the 1959 and all that website, but didn't pick up on any of the points in this thread.

To return to an earlier question (mine!), Boyd also gets an unflattering mention in a Glasperlenspiel interview (definitely with Chris Sampson this time!) here http://thejamesray.co.uk/item.aspx?itemid=2

**Thread derailment alert:-)**
I've asked about the biography/history article on Heartland before but to no avail. The Impossible Dreamers and their possible links to The Sisters, and just when did Peel play The Damage Done continue to fascinate me.

This thread, the locating of the original print for The Damage Done, the recent gigs and no 'get bents' cropping up every time a conversation gets interesting. The most fun I've had reading Heartland in a long time:-)

Mothra wrote:This thread, the locating of the original print for The Damage Done, the recent gigs and no 'get bents' cropping up every time a conversation gets interesting. The most fun I've had reading Heartland in a long time:-)

Clearly we've been remiss - put it down to being preoccupied by the new series of Dr. Whom.

Get bent!

So. Thanks to MAndrews ... ... a b/w copy of Oxford St. John's 1977 can now be viewed here:

http://sisterswiki.org/images/f/fc/Matr ... s_1977.jpg

Find out, who is AE and who is BS ... ...

Fantastic! The earliest known pic of . Great detective work, @mandrews.

...

More than a little creepy

Has anyone spotted him yet? Somehow I think the "Where's Wally(Waldo)?" franchise is quite safe.

Mothra wrote:The Impossible Dreamers and their possible links to The Sisters

I think consensus is that it's nothing more than coincidence.

Dan wrote:Has anyone spotted him yet? Somehow I think the "Where's Wally(Waldo)?" franchise is quite safe.

MAndrews wrote:Front row, 5th from left: B Steemson. 6th row, furthest on the right, AWH Taylor, partially obscured by the tall young man in front of him.