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Re: Germany

Posted: 25 Jul 2016, 06:07
by eotunun
Bartek wrote:
eotunun wrote:The European Union used to be half a billion of ecconomicaly strong, well educated citizens. Europe could handle evacuating all of Syria for good with ease!
This number miss unemployment rates, poverty rates within EU. But yes, here's much much, muchos better than in Syria, Lybia, Afghanistan and Iraq.
These numbers of unemployment say nothing about the potential to act.
If Europeans chose to, if they elected politics that work in favour of the Union and in favour of more advanced ethics than hand-to-mouth thinking, we Europeans could make the difference.
To explain (at some level): part of this comes from fear, stupid and blind nationalisms and chauvinismus, which has it source in a fact that, like in other post-soviet-block countires, there's not much of national minorities, people here see people speaking other languages, from other cultures since last 10 years (or so), yet most of that people are here as tourists, students of expats. They are fear because they didn't have much chance to meet people form that (muslim, arabic) culture, apart from holiday destinations (Egypt, Tunisia, Turkey), but that's a bit different type (i know it sounds bad) of people - they have to be much more open to tourists.
So what? 20 years ago, russians were the enemy, and noeadays, half my neighbours are from the former Soviet Union with the spoken German morphing towards slavic grammar, Polish, Hungarians, Bulgarians all over the places here.
The majority of Germans get this sorted out and understand why they can be happy about it. Funnily enough, you see russian flags at right winger's demos. The NPD, furthest right party of Germany's political spectrum, has a considerable fraction of former Yugoslavian and Russian folks as members.
I find a common denominator, which is, that I think the "communist" countries never were left wing oriented in the first place. That train of thought runs in the following tracks:
Left wing politics work in favour of progressive, democratic, liberalist societies while right wingers favour authoritarian systems with "A strong leader", a king, and rigid, static society. Looking at what the societies in the eastern block actually worked like, I find they actually were pretty darn right wingerish, with fake elections producing leaders who would aggressively oppress oppositions and basically freeze the state of affairs in the societies of their countries. There may have been econonical reasons for that, the lack of means to change the state of affairs. Nevertheless, things were the way they were, and two or three generations of those countries experienced static societies. As humans do, people adapted themselves. Some more, others less. The better one fit in, the better one's life was. At the top of the pile, life was pretty darn comfy there.
Add to this an anti western propaganda that mainly consisted of conspiracy theories, the core of which you find in today's right wing memes and the right winger's collective paranoia and myths of self promoting elitarism against the evidenvce daily life gave, and you end up with a mindset that's pretty close to contemporary right winger's metaphors.
I guess that is why eastern Europe is quite as receptive to right wing ideas, it surely is a pattern that screams at you when you look at what drives eastern Germany's right wingers.

Left wing ideals basically define the very core of democracies. Liberal societies right wingers aim to conquer for their own interests.

…just mys personal take on things. :wink:

Posted: 25 Jul 2016, 07:41
by eastmidswhizzkid
nowayjose wrote:It's picking up pace:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... rn-germany
my condolences and love to all our German members, and the families of those killed. this s**t aint gonna stop is it?

Posted: 25 Jul 2016, 11:26
by iesus
No, it's not. Salaphists play their cards to end game, whatever end might be.

Re: Germany

Posted: 25 Jul 2016, 13:39
by nowayjose
eotunun wrote: Left wing ideals basically define the very core of democracies.
Yeah right, dictatorship of the proletariat, abolishment of private property, those core democratic values.

Re: Germany

Posted: 25 Jul 2016, 14:14
by Being645
iesus wrote:No, it's not. Salaphists play their cards to end game, whatever end might be.
Currently, there's a view circulating among them that in 2023 the (real and last) Armageddon is to going to come ...
one more reason to act like any blinded suicide sect, one that is prepared to take the whole world with them if possible ... :roll: ...

Yeah, deadlines have always been a good means to generate results when weakness is gaining ground as the dream won't turn into reality ...

Looking at events here in Germany, what were these young guys fighting for? Varying personal issues and surely not the caliphate,
but IS gives them the "right" to express their emotion with utmost brutality and to cause pain and destruction way beyond of
what they have personally suffered. The price is a glorified end of all their dreams and endeavours ... buying the right to end
the dreams and endeavours of as many other people as they can get. Is it really worth it? I don't think so.

Re: Germany

Posted: 25 Jul 2016, 15:50
by Norman Hunter
Being645 wrote:Currently, there's a view circulating among them that in 2023 the (real and last) Armageddon is to going to come ...
Just before half-past eight? Better make sure I have a nice tea, tonight :eek:

Re: Germany

Posted: 25 Jul 2016, 18:04
by eastmidswhizzkid
Norman Hunter wrote:
Being645 wrote:Currently, there's a view circulating among them that in 2023 the (real and last) Armageddon is to going to come ...
Just before half-past eight? Better make sure I have a nice tea, tonight :eek:
if armageddon remains undecided after extra-time does it go to penalties?

Re: Germany

Posted: 25 Jul 2016, 18:36
by Johnny Rev 7.0
eastmidswhizzkid wrote:if armageddon remains undecided after extra-time does it go to penalties?
No. Cameron stood firm against that EU rule (as the Germans would obviously win), but Germany doesn't want to be associated with Armageddon.

Not that anyone would be still left around to comment.

Except:

Image

So, in true British upper-crust tradition... Cameron negoiated a Dual at Dawn as a decider.

May the best country be blamed.

By Snake (who'll still be alive, obviously) as we all regress to atoms floating in the atmosphere.

Back to our birth.

Re: Germany

Posted: 25 Jul 2016, 18:57
by EvilBastard
eastmidswhizzkid wrote:if armageddon remains undecided after extra-time does it go to penalties?
That's how it goes, you think you're on top of the world, and suddenly they spring Armageddon on you. The Great War, the Last Battle. Heaven versus Hell, three rounds, one Fall, no submission. And that'd be that. No more world. That's what the end of the world meant. No more world. Just endless Heaven or, depending who won, endless Hell. Crowley didn't know which was worse.

Good Omens

Re: Germany

Posted: 25 Jul 2016, 20:06
by paint it black
Norman Hunter wrote:
Being645 wrote:Currently, there's a view circulating among them that in 2023 the (real and last) Armageddon is to going to come ...
Damn and with the sisters DVD and live LP due 2024 (according to a not at all reliable source).

Re: Germany

Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 08:59
by Bartek
eotunun wrote: The majority of Germans get this sorted out and understand why they can be happy about it. Funnily enough, you see russian flags at right winger's demos. The NPD, furthest right party of Germany's political spectrum, has a considerable fraction of former Yugoslavian and Russian folks as members.
I find a common denominator, which is, that I think the "communist" countries never were left wing oriented in the first place. That train of thought runs in the following tracks:
Left wing politics work in favour of progressive, democratic, liberalist societies while right wingers favour authoritarian systems with "A strong leader", a king, and rigid, static society. Looking at what the societies in the eastern block actually worked like, I find they actually were pretty darn right wingerish, with fake elections producing leaders who would aggressively oppress oppositions and basically freeze the state of affairs in the societies of their countries. There may have been econonical reasons for that, the lack of means to change the state of affairs. Nevertheless, things were the way they were, and two or three generations of those countries experienced static societies. As humans do, people adapted themselves. Some more, others less. The better one fit in, the better one's life was. At the top of the pile, life was pretty darn comfy there.
Add to this an anti western propaganda that mainly consisted of conspiracy theories, the core of which you find in today's right wing memes and the right winger's collective paranoia and myths of self promoting elitarism against the evidenvce daily life gave, and you end up with a mindset that's pretty close to contemporary right winger's metaphors.
I guess that is why eastern Europe is quite as receptive to right wing ideas, it surely is a pattern that screams at you when you look at what drives eastern Germany's right wingers.

Left wing ideals basically define the very core of democracies. Liberal societies right wingers aim to conquer for their own interests.

…just mys personal take on things. :wink:
1) People's republic don't exist. Therefore we, can only chose those who are going to set rules; we can push tchem to do something.

2) that's great that Germans sorted this thing out; It would be a bit daft to not straighten this issue taking huge stain on German's history (sorry for bringing this out, but in my view you politics and society made great lesson from the past, took an correct conclussion). I would like to see that in other post soviet area/countries it looks the same. It easy to not talk about nazism or fascism.

3) you didn't discover anything new - soviet/socialistic system wasn't based on left-wing priciples, it was croony based state ownership, cenatral planning and nationalisms. And you have to remember that in post-soviet soviet block countries, some of left-wing priciples will not see that day of light, not soon, at least not in dicerct form (however in PL right now, it's going to happen - with some support from media, think tanks and so - somthing called repolinosation which is nothing more than state taking control over formerly only state govermented companies in 90s' and in this century went on public companies, but that's different thing). And yes, former western block is mostly toward some sort of dictatorship.

Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 11:56
by Bartek
Everything seems to be up in the air at this time

If yet another in last seven days attack (Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray) will turn out to be work by people claiming their alliance to so~called ISIS, it would be so easy to start spiral of hatred towards all muslims. Of course it will work on some straight thinking people, but it will effect on other people too. It will radicalise both sides, which will effect suspicious, act of voilence (both physical and oral), and minor clash, that will be fuel to yet another attacks, and swift of propaganda by ISIS - at this point (if it will happen) they will defend opressed muslim minority. At least that how i see that ISIS may play that game.

Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 12:51
by markfiend
Yes, I think it's part of the overall ISIS strategy: actually try to whip up anti-Muslim feeling in the West, which then lets them say to the disaffected Muslim youth "the West hates Muslims, you should come and join us".

Re: Germany

Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 13:28
by eastmidswhizzkid
EvilBastard wrote:
eastmidswhizzkid wrote:if armageddon remains undecided after extra-time does it go to penalties?
That's how it goes, you think you're on top of the world, and suddenly they spring Armageddon on you. The Great War, the Last Battle. Heaven versus Hell, three rounds, one Fall, no submission. And that'd be that. No more world. That's what the end of the world meant. No more world. Just endless Heaven or, depending who won, endless Hell. Crowley didn't know which was worse.

Good Omens
coincidentally (or not -there is no coincidence , only synchronicity) i just finished reading that for the umpty-billionth time.

Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 13:43
by Bartek
Speaking about Armageddon. This seems to be darn current one.

Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 18:07
by iesus
Speaking about cover up Munich
Anyone guess why and for what reason?

Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 20:25
by nowayjose
iesus wrote:Speaking about cover up Munich
Anyone guess why and for what reason?
It's on the Internet, so it must be true!

Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 20:49
by iesus
nowayjose wrote:
iesus wrote:Speaking about cover up Munich
Anyone guess why and for what reason?
It's on the Internet, so it must be true!
Not everything on internet true, but that Sunbulli family don't hide their origins and beliefs as we can see