Heartland

Being645 wrote: ↑11 Mar 2022, 12:17 Alternatively, aren't plenty kids of Russian oligarchs currently studying at UK (and other European or worldwide) private schools and universities ...

I think the sanctions have excluded them. They have certainly cut off their school fees

Being645 wrote: ↑11 Mar 2022, 12:17 Alternatively, aren't plenty kids of Russian oligarchs currently studying at UK (and other European or worldwide) private schools and universities ...

It's just a typicall double standards - propaganda for russians says something about lack of values, being against christianity, being depravated, and so, presenting russia as better place to live, while kremlins etiles are sending their childerns to learn in western schools.
When assests and banck accounts are gonna be freezed (until they find workaround for that issue, if they did not do that already), and money run dry parties and luxury life will be squashed. But i don't think it will last long.

There's also the issue that there's a lot of dirty Russian money in Britain, particularly in British politics, specifically the Tory party. Boris Johnson doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds.

So not much of a chance to take them hostage ... schade eigentlich...

markfiend wrote: ↑11 Mar 2022, 16:33 There's also the issue that there's a lot of dirty Russian money in Britain, particularly in British politics, specifically the Tory party. Boris Johnson doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds.

That. Cambridge Analytica. Brexit campaign funding. There are such Tories where the long arm of Russian money reaches so far up their arse that the Russian hand moves their mouths. The German real estate sector is also heavily filled by laundered oligarch pennies. Joseph Ackermann, former head of Deutsche Bank, was last seen working for the Bank of Cyprus, the favourite of Oligarchs in the European Union.
Deutsche Bank who got a billion dollars fine in the USA for their contribution to money laundering. Deutsche Bank, who granted the Trump Organization $600 Mio. of credits on the base of visibly forged listings of securities.

And we paid for that, almost everytime we were fulled our cars, turning electricity, heating our homes.

And are feeding their friends - China.

They both were patience enough to use our unpatience against us, our need for new stuff, new clothes, eveything but cheaper, during that time they were collecting money, building their armies, in case of China draining our knowledg/brains by offering scientists bigger money, better equipped labs, assisstants, stealing know-how.

And now it's time for their move.

And I don't believe that expected change of power in kremlin will make a different.
That's just these countries see their situation. They made us believe also that our time has comes to an end, that we're somehome shapeless, with lack of values, no future.

markfiend wrote: ↑11 Mar 2022, 16:33 There's also the issue that there's a lot of dirty Russian money in Britain, particularly in British politics, specifically the Tory party. Boris Johnson doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds.

Fun fact i still remember an interview of Boris gave and watched before he take the position of leading in which he said that from a grand grand mother of his was from a russian place and was brought as slave to the ottoman empire and sold to a grand grand dad of his. So basically he has a % of russian in him.

iesus wrote: ↑12 Mar 2022, 11:04

markfiend wrote: ↑11 Mar 2022, 16:33 There's also the issue that there's a lot of dirty Russian money in Britain, particularly in British politics, specifically the Tory party. Boris Johnson doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds.

Fun fact i still remember an interview of Boris gave and watched before he take the position of leading in which he said that from a grand grand mother of his was from a russian place and was brought as slave to the ottoman empire and sold to a grand grand dad of his. So basically he has a % of russian in him.

Try to find any European who has no international background in his or her family. You won't.

eotunun wrote: ↑13 Mar 2022, 08:53

iesus wrote: ↑12 Mar 2022, 11:04

markfiend wrote: ↑11 Mar 2022, 16:33 There's also the issue that there's a lot of dirty Russian money in Britain, particularly in British politics, specifically the Tory party. Boris Johnson doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds.

Fun fact i still remember an interview of Boris gave and watched before he take the position of leading in which he said that from a grand grand mother of his was from a russian place and was brought as slave to the ottoman empire and sold to a grand grand dad of his. So basically he has a % of russian in him.

Try to find any European who has no international background in his or her family. You won't.

Actually that depends of how far we go on generations. I would say the more far we search at the past there are more chances to have international background. I know from my part, for example, that i had a grand grand grand father who was a pirate from italy.

I have heard that you only need to go back as far as about 1400 to reach the point that everyone who was alive then is either an ancestor of everybody alive now, or has no descendents at all.

eotunun wrote: ↑28 Feb 2022, 07:01 [paid trolls fired up both sides of two opposed groups in the USA, which resulted in clashes in the streets somewhere in the USA. That's how they work. Take existing splits and disagreements elsewhere and seed conflict at that point to widen the gap. If they are lucky they'll inspire hatred and hostility, and they have a soft but effective control over both sides.

Exactly. The only answer is to stop playing in to this and to find a way to come together.

I'm not going to write a huge essay on the matter. Only some observations from a man on the inside who is against the war, half-Ukrainian, and tries to look at things as objectively as possible. And, after 9 months, has the power of hindsight.
Me being half-Ukrainian isn't anything out of the ordinary in Russia. At the time when both countries were blocs of a Soviet Union, it wasn't uncommon for the people to travel between them, meet each other, fall in love and start a family. That's what happened in my case as well - my father came to (at the time) Leningrad from Sevastopol where he grew up, met my mom and the rest, as they say, is history. So.
What's going on now is a horrible situation for all involved, for a lot of different reasons. And, unfortunately, not as black and white as Western media tries to make it seem - evil and terrible Russia attacking poor, innocent Ukraine. Unfortunately, because the situation would've been far more simpler if it really was that way. In reality, not as poor and not as innocent, as it turns out, even though not much is written about it on the other side (although there has been some movement in the opposite direction - it telling about the Russian captive soldiers being killed, which is just one of the many atrocities committed by Ukrainians, people in Kherson being tied to posts, Amnesty International report, which, although having been gaslit, still saw the light of day, and other reports).
No, I'm not saying all this because I've been brainwashed by propaganda - believe me, I have all the means of accessing information, so I know what's actually going on. Plus, it isn't as restricted as some may try to lead you to believe. Most of the foreign sites are readily available and even official reporting is not all roses, not to mention countless independent sources. And I can reach this site and many others (and write this message) without any fear of repercussions - this is to the topic of how horribly oppressed and stifled Russians are. No, we are not. Our government isn't actually that different from governments all across the world. Follow the official line or get kicked in the teeth. Other than that, there's actually more freedom in some departments than I saw in some European countries and the USA. The problem is, there has been more and more things lately that the government isn't happy about, but that's a whole other matter of discussion.
Speaking of propaganda, I actually find it amazing how some people, who aren't even able to find Ukraine on the map, actually believe that the entire country has been put under some sort of spell. Do they actually think that the entire 140-million some population is that stupid and naive? There are, of course, radicals, as there are everywhere, but those of us who do want to know, do know. And there are a lot of us. Those who don't want to know... Well... Can lead the horse to the water, but can't make it drink.
Why, then, has there been no uprising, you ask? I guess nothing so strong that could spark it happened yet. Also, the answer to that might be found by the end of this post. The hatred does exist, unfortunately, on both sides.
And the other side doesn't have it easy. What Zelenskyy is doing now, shutting down independent reporters, forbidding to tell about the real consequences of the war, including losses, signing decrees that free the Ukrainian politicians from having to be under financial surveillance during their lifetimes (which didn't happen in Russia), and many other things, all under a guise of war, is exactly what Putin did in Russia. Only, it took him twenty-two years to get to that point. Zelenskyy did all that in nine months.
No matter what the Ukrainians are trying to do now, destroying the Russian monuments (to Pushkin, among others) and saying how they are so different and not like the Russians at all, the history between the countries is rich and intertwined. Their presidents share the first name, for crying out loud. And I'm not even going to mention the cultural and family ties, tons of trade preferences given to Ukraine by Russia (yes, by that same, horrible, occupant country it's attempted to be painted as), visa-free travel, so they could, among everything else, come and make more money in Russia than they could in their own country, nuclear powerplants left from the USSR days, and lots of other things. Which makes the current proceedings even more tragic.
However, they didn't just come from out of nowhere and that is important. Ukrainians didn't just start s**t on Russia because of the war. It didn't even start after Crimea. No, it was happening for a very long time, with them being sure that they will live oh so much better if only they could break away from Russia (despite all of the practical things mentioned above, so go figure), that Russians oppress them and that they should just go away. And I would like to conclude with something the media won't tell you about.
The year is 1998, I'm ten years old and I'm vacationing in Kyiv (see, I even spell it how it's supposed to be spelled now, not "Kiev", as it's been for ages) with my grandparents on my father's side (remember, I'm half-Ukrainian). One day, I go out on the playground, meet some kids, as you do, tell them I came from Russia, along the way, we play and everything is fine. The next day I come out, see them again and approach them, all smiles, like "'sup, you guys?" What do I hear in return? "Get out of here, you Russian pig, we are not going to play with you." I turn around and walk away. I understand that that was what they heard from their parents, but still. Now imagine the entire country of kids growing up and hearing about "Russian pigs". So in some ways, the conflict was maybe even inevitable. Even without the political interference from the USA in 2013, confirmed by Obama, among others.
TL;DR - I love Russia. I love Ukraine. f**k war. Love everywhere in the world. Burn the weapons. Peace.

Not a single, undoubtly, shameful war crime against russian sodliers commited by Ukrainian soldiers would have happed if russia did not invade Ukraine. End of story.
Everything that is happening because of the war have it source in invasion of Ukraine by russia. It's not a excuse, but Ukrainians have reason to misstreat russian soldiers - Bucha, Mariupol, attacking civilan infrastructure, to name just a few big one. russia does not care about war law/regulation at all - you will reap what you sow. Still, Ukrainians should show even more decency in this situation, but somehow they are a bit excused.

As for the other story of what allegedly Zelenskyy is doing, never came across such info, and i tried to be updated on the most objective source possible.

Like I said in the beginning, I am against the war. I also think starting it was a moronic decision, on great many levels. So yes, a lot of things wouldn't have happened had it not started.
Regarding Zelenskyy signing the law that gives politicians free reign in corruption, it can be found at these three links:

https://antac.org.ua/news/tspk-vymahaie ... -vid-opzzh
https://www.5.ua/polityka/zelenskyi-pid ... 93085.html
https://www.facebook.com/antac.ua, if you scroll down to a post from November 21. Not giving a direct link, as it's going to be too long.

All are in Ukrainian, but are translateable. As for the other news, they're also out there, but have to be searched for now.

kamikadze british guy visits Moscow and battlefields during last winter

markfiend wrote: ↑14 Mar 2022, 10:33 I have heard that you only need to go back as far as about 1400 to reach the point that everyone who was alive then is either an ancestor of everybody alive now, or has no descendents at all.

aren't we all descended from Noah? Apart from Patricia Morrison who didnt survive the Flood...

BTW yes i am taking the whole thing incredibly seriously and certainly am not belittling the shiitty fuckked mess that we have wandered into. My gallows humour simply balances my acceptance that if things carry on the way they are -with nobody wanting to do other than exacerbate the situation for whatever insane benefit they see coming from it (money and less peolpe to not spend it on) - then we realistically may not see 2024 as a species.

eastmidswhizzkid wrote: ↑09 Mar 2023, 19:47 - then we realistically may not see 2024 as a species.

I am more optimistic, can suggest that it would be 2025 to 2026 that this could happen
Btw the Flood joke is amazing

iesus wrote: ↑09 Mar 2023, 21:38

eastmidswhizzkid wrote: ↑09 Mar 2023, 19:47 - then we realistically may not see 2024 as a species.

I am more optimistic, can suggest that it would be 2025 to 2026 that this could happen
Btw the Flood joke is amazing

eastmidswhizzkid wrote: ↑09 Mar 2023, 19:47 aren't we all descended from Noah? Apart from Patricia Morrison who didnt survive the Flood...

public record IS of importance for education and moderation.
I've just come across this

https://lmc.icds.ee/lennart-meri-lecture-by-fiona-hill/

which I found interesting - although I cannot say that I knew who either Lennart Meri was or Fiona Hill is.

First, I didn't realize that the US were having constant riots/demonstrations in our streets lead by fascists. Did anarchists and fascists tag along with other civil liberty demonstrators? You betcha they did. Caused a crap load of property damage too.

Second, the EU - especially Germany - asked the US to leave with its military hardware decades back. Amis Raus! I believe was what I saw spraypainted on walls.
Guess whose scared and wants the US to send in more military support for NATO? Yep, NATO and non Nato countries. Those who told us to go kiss off.

Third, the nukes. China, Russia and the US are all eye balling each other. Oh hell don't forget about North Korea just shooting off ballistic missiles like firecrackers. The cause for the eyeballing may currently be in Eastern Europe - and I feel bad for any country or are whether Africa, South America, Europe who stand in the middle. I'd personally be more concerned about ground forces. The Russians sent in their "C" team. Hell last year freaking generals were dying daily. That says alot. I'd be worried about the "A" team. But they are busy defending Putin. So that's a tenuous possibility at most.

Fourth, the US has got some serious issues in our country. We are divided in half - just like it was during our Revolutionary War. And I agree with this article. We never finished our Civil War.

https://time.com/6174297/america-divided-civil-war/

BTW seriously great conversation here. I, like most Americans, really do need to hear from people from other countries and perspectives.

primasvisage wrote: ↑28 May 2023, 20:02 public record IS of importance for education and moderation.
I've just come across this

https://lmc.icds.ee/lennart-meri-lecture-by-fiona-hill/

which I found interesting - although I cannot say that I knew who either Lennart Meri was or Fiona Hill is.

"For some, the U.S. is a flawed international actor with its own domestic problems to attend to" Totally agree.

eastmidswhizzkid wrote: ↑09 Mar 2023, 19:47

markfiend wrote: ↑14 Mar 2022, 10:33 I have heard that you only need to go back as far as about 1400 to reach the point that everyone who was alive then is either an ancestor of everybody alive now, or has no descendents at all.

aren't we all descended from Noah? Apart from Patricia Morrison who didnt survive the Flood...

BTW yes i am taking the whole thing incredibly seriously and certainly am not belittling the shiitty fuckked mess that we have wandered into. My gallows humour simply balances my acceptance that if things carry on the way they are -with nobody wanting to do other than exacerbate the situation for whatever insane benefit they see coming from it (money and less peolpe to not spend it on) - then we realistically may not see 2024 as a species.

"then we realistically may not see 2024 as a species." I disagree.
BTW, what are we all doing about the situation other than chat about it?

Incoming! wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 17:26 First, I didn't realize that the US were having constant riots/demonstrations in our streets lead by fascists. Did anarchists and fascists tag along with other civil liberty demonstrators? You betcha they did. Caused a crap load of property damage too.

Second, the EU - especially Germany - asked the US to leave with its military hardware decades back. Amis Raus! I believe was what I saw spraypainted on walls.
Guess whose scared and wants the US to send in more military support for NATO? Yep, NATO and non Nato countries. Those who told us to go kiss off.

Third, the nukes. China, Russia and the US are all eye balling each other. Oh hell don't forget about North Korea just shooting off ballistic missiles like firecrackers. The cause for the eyeballing may currently be in Eastern Europe - and I feel bad for any country or are whether Africa, South America, Europe who stand in the middle. I'd personally be more concerned about ground forces. The Russians sent in their "C" team. Hell last year freaking generals were dying daily. That says alot. I'd be worried about the "A" team. But they are busy defending Putin. So that's a tenuous possibility at most.

Fourth, the US has got some serious issues in our country. We are divided in half - just like it was during our Revolutionary War. And I agree with this article. We never finished our Civil War.

https://time.com/6174297/america-divided-civil-war/

BTW seriously great conversation here. I, like most Americans, really do need to hear from people from other countries and perspectives.

Nobody is opening the canned sunshine. I'm also not sure why you think they sent in their C-team, given the number of elite regiments that have been reported as nigh-destroyed. Generals were dying because the West was providing Ukraine with nearly real-time targeting intelligence, not because the Russians sent in the C-team.

I think the issues here in the US have, to some degree, been amped up by Russians and Chinese influence operations. That perhaps sounds conspiratorial, but I've had enough barroom conversations about it with people in DC who can't say where they work that I am inclined to believe it. That's not to say we don't have problems - we're more divided than I've ever seen us, and we are losing the ability to accept the old saw that "reasonable people can disagree" on all manner of controversial issues. The extreme right and the extreme left are both getting crazier and louder. One thing the internet does is make it easy for us to isolate ourselves in ideological echo chambers, which is not a recipe for a successful democracy.

sultan2075 wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 17:51

Incoming! wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 17:26 First, I didn't realize that the US were having constant riots/demonstrations in our streets lead by fascists. Did anarchists and fascists tag along with other civil liberty demonstrators? You betcha they did. Caused a crap load of property damage too.

Second, the EU - especially Germany - asked the US to leave with its military hardware decades back. Amis Raus! I believe was what I saw spraypainted on walls.
Guess whose scared and wants the US to send in more military support for NATO? Yep, NATO and non Nato countries. Those who told us to go kiss off.

Third, the nukes. China, Russia and the US are all eye balling each other. Oh hell don't forget about North Korea just shooting off ballistic missiles like firecrackers. The cause for the eyeballing may currently be in Eastern Europe - and I feel bad for any country or are whether Africa, South America, Europe who stand in the middle. I'd personally be more concerned about ground forces. The Russians sent in their "C" team. Hell last year freaking generals were dying daily. That says alot. I'd be worried about the "A" team. But they are busy defending Putin. So that's a tenuous possibility at most.

Fourth, the US has got some serious issues in our country. We are divided in half - just like it was during our Revolutionary War. And I agree with this article. We never finished our Civil War.

https://time.com/6174297/america-divided-civil-war/

BTW seriously great conversation here. I, like most Americans, really do need to hear from people from other countries and perspectives.

Nobody is opening the canned sunshine. I'm also not sure why you think they sent in their C-team, given the number of elite regiments that have been reported as nigh-destroyed. Generals were dying because the West was providing Ukraine with nearly real-time targeting intelligence, not because the Russians sent in the C-team.

I think the issues here in the US have, to some degree, been amped up by Russians and Chinese influence operations. That perhaps sounds conspiratorial, but I've had enough barroom conversations about it with people in DC who can't say where they work that I am inclined to believe it. That's not to say we don't have problems - we're more divided than I've ever seen us, and we are losing the ability to accept the old saw that "reasonable people can disagree" on all manner of controversial issues. The extreme right and the extreme left are both getting crazier and louder. One thing the internet does is make it easy for us to isolate ourselves in ideological echo chambers, which is not a recipe for a successful democracy.

I have counterparts in DC. And if you are talking about this issue in detail with people in DC, they are violating the terms of their clearances. Probably some of them fairly high clearances. I know s**t too. But I know mostly....that I like TSOM.

Yes, they have A team mercenary units paid by Russia in the Ukraine. If the infantry was A grade, they wouldn't have had the miles long logistics back up they had last summer.

As far as the US is concerned, I agree with you completely. Where I work, I don't dare utter a liberal word or concept. It would be 20 to 1. AND I'm a Republican. A Republican who know longer knows how to affect change. Terribly frustrating that. I used to protest. Chose specific candidates on both sides of the aisle depending on the issue. Now my decision is - who is the less crazy AND is an adult.

Oh and talking to my family......even though we are closer to some things than they want to believe....at the holidays I just smile and get up and get another slice of pie. May explain my weight gain.