Heartland

I interpret that as "everything was fine until the record was due out then we had to admit that we hadn't actually made one"

ribbons69 wrote: ↑14 Nov 2022, 14:24 I interpret that as "everything was fine until the record was due out then we had to admit that we hadn't actually made one"

I'd go a bit further than that - the record wasn't ready to come out cos they hadn't actually signed a deal...

czuczu wrote: ↑14 Nov 2022, 14:45

ribbons69 wrote: ↑14 Nov 2022, 14:24 I interpret that as "everything was fine until the record was due out then we had to admit that we hadn't actually made one"

I'd go a bit further than that - the record wasn't ready to come out cos they hadn't actually signed a deal...

Seconded, I think the deal was due to be signed until that fax appeared which convinced The Sisters to rather withdraw from this agreement... and given how Mute treated their artists at the time (luring them into and then supporting heroin abuse), I'm glad they did so... ...

Todashi wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 13:30 What does 'due to come out' mean?

My theory is that "Temple of Love (1992)" was supposed to come out in the UK on Mute. I don't understand why you guys above are making it more complicated than that

H. Blackrose wrote: ↑15 Nov 2022, 03:49

Todashi wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 13:30 What does 'due to come out' mean?

My theory is that "Temple of Love (1992)" was supposed to come out in the UK on Mute. I don't understand why you guys above are making it more complicated than that

That seems plausible; that or Under The Gun, with Under The Gun being possibly more likely; the Mute deal falls through, UTG then comes out on Warners as standard, and Von goes on strike after that.

Truth bein between the limits covered in last 2 posts by HB and MH seems plausible to me. That must be the closest scenario.

Being645 wrote: ↑11 Nov 2022, 12:35maybe the Glasperlenspiel Fanzine has better info,
since... ... (memory setting in) ... UTR actually ended with the end of the relation to East/West
so, obviously, I was wrong about the info in UTR. Uh, sorry... ... still, there's a lot of interesting stuff to read in there ... ...

I'd look out for GPS issues 01 & 03 on that.

On UTR, I recall explaining the realities of a recording artist. It costs the band a lot of time and energy to make an album. Labels release albums, but give only pittance to the artist. His rumored gambit was indeed to charge an obscene advance for what the labels saw as a cult band. A deal would've been a slam-dunk; pocket the money and put out an album. Another Rock n' Roll swindle.

The flipside is that does have a point there; recording musicians have been robbed blind since the dawn of gramophone. Had he signed on the dotted line (again), he would've been harried by the label in regards to the album, enough singles for radio play, interviews with airheaded music reporters, promotional events, etc. And the Sisters, like many other acts, would still not be getting their due from the album sales. So wanted to subvert the broken royalty system before agreeing to any label.

I guess he counted his beans and surmised that the live band is good business. Only a big advance would make any label deal equally profitable in relation to the time and energy required.

If UTG was supposed to be the first Mute single, then that makes sense with the Depeche Mode Crystal Palace gig

copper wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 00:53 I guess he counted his beans and surmised that the live band is good business. Only a big advance would make any label deal equally profitable in relation to the time and energy required.

The problem with that idea is that the Sisters stopped performing live after 1993 as well, only starting back up in '96.

markfiend wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 10:54

copper wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 00:53 I guess he counted his beans and surmised that the live band is good business. Only a big advance would make any label deal equally profitable in relation to the time and energy required.

The problem with that idea is that the Sisters stopped performing live after 1993 as well, only starting back up in '96.

That, and I also think he had not the slightest idea (like the rest of us) back then just how good business touring would prove to be, and that they would still be touring 30(!) years later. The good life the yearly tours has provided him with, is just another added welcome argument for him to not release anything.

At least they cleaned up a live version of Suzanne though, so it's possible to put stuff out there just to the fanbase without fanfare.
Could do the same for the new songs for next to nothing, test the water on sales and recharge the audience (much of the casual fan FB types are lost on the new songs, a big enough proportion of the audience he needs to retain).
Ultimately doesn't want to read in the Guardian and similar saying "Fire up your black eyeliner the Lord of Darkness is back and millions of goths cry out..." He's happy on his beach.

To derail slightly, Dylan Moran once said "the thing about potential is you can use it all up.."



Anyway I'm avoiding doing my taxes, procrastinating on HL, better get on it.

These might be the seven stages of Sisters new album grief, which one are we at now?

Dr. Moody wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 13:13 These might be the seven stages of Sisters new album grief, which one are we at now?

Dunno about anyone else but I think I've reached the "if can't be arsed he can go fcuk himself and I can't be arsed with the Sisters either" stage.

copper wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 00:53

Being645 wrote: ↑11 Nov 2022, 12:35maybe the Glasperlenspiel Fanzine has better info,
since... ... (memory setting in) ... UTR actually ended with the end of the relation to East/West
so, obviously, I was wrong about the info in UTR. Uh, sorry... ... still, there's a lot of interesting stuff to read in there ... ...

I'd look out for GPS issues 01 & 03 on that.

On UTR, I recall explaining the realities of a recording artist. It costs the band a lot of time and energy to make an album. Labels release albums, but give only pittance to the artist. His rumored gambit was indeed to charge an obscene advance for what the labels saw as a cult band. A deal would've been a slam-dunk; pocket the money and put out an album. Another Rock n' Roll swindle.

The flipside is that does have a point there; recording musicians have been robbed blind since the dawn of gramophone. Had he signed on the dotted line (again), he would've been harried by the label in regards to the album, enough singles for radio play, interviews with airheaded music reporters, promotional events, etc. And the Sisters, like many other acts, would still not be getting their due from the album sales. So wanted to subvert the broken royalty system before agreeing to any label.

I guess he counted his beans and surmised that the live band is good business. Only a big advance would make any label deal equally profitable in relation to the time and energy required.

Thanks - that's insightful. Of course, the people who lose out from the 'don't release anything' approach are the fans themselves, who are left with only muddy live versions of the post-recording era songs to listen to between gigs

Dr. Moody wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 13:13 At least they cleaned up a live version of Suzanne though, so it's possible to put stuff out there just to the fanbase without fanfare.
Could do the same for the new songs for next to nothing, test the water on sales and recharge the audience (much of the casual fan FB types are lost on the new songs, a big enough proportion of the audience he needs to retain).
Ultimately doesn't want to read in the Guardian and similar saying "Fire up your black eyeliner the Lord of Darkness is back and millions of goths cry out..." He's happy on his beach.

To derail slightly, Dylan Moran once said "the thing about potential is you can use it all up.."



Anyway I'm avoiding doing my taxes, procrastinating on HL, better get on it.

These might be the seven stages of Sisters new album grief, which one are we at now?

They cleaned up a live version of Suzanne?? I've never heard that before. When was this?

Listening to bootlegs of new songs is like taking pictures with digital zoom and vaseline smeared over the camera lens.

Gaijin wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 16:25 Listening to bootlegs of new songs is like taking pictures with digital zoom and vaseline smeared over the camera lens.

Nicely put

They cleaned up a live version of Suzanne?? I've never heard that before. When was this?
[/quote]

Yes, they did, and they put it up on the website. It sounded fantastic. I believe this is it -

MrChris wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 17:54 They cleaned up a live version of Suzanne?? I've never heard that before. When was this?

Yes, they did, and they put it up on the website. It sounded fantastic. I believe this is it -


[/quote]

Wowser, thank you. It's. gone from the website now, I take it?

FinnMacCool wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 18:07Wowser, thank you. It's. gone from the website now, I take it?

They took it down cos of the bandwidth hammering of everyone nicking a 100mb file - different times!

MrChris wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 17:54 They cleaned up a live version of Suzanne?? I've never heard that before. When was this?

Yes, they did, and they put it up on the website. It sounded fantastic. I believe this is it -


[/quote]

And thats the only thing they've managed to clean up in 29 years.... which is very depressing.

Furthermore I dont really believe all the stories that AE saw no money in releasing. Everybody else was doing it and making money....
I still believe that the Sisters just are nt allowed to release due to record obligations i.e. he is stlll contractually obligated and still on strike.

That was made to attract UK bookers to take the Sisters, because at that stage they were really struggling to find anyone. There was also a CD doing the rounds with the video as on the website and a higher quality audio which genuinely sounded like a studio track. It was being touted as a sampler from a forthcoming DVD. We know where that went.

markfiend wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 10:54

copper wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 00:53 I guess he counted his beans and surmised that the live band is good business. Only a big advance would make any label deal equally profitable in relation to the time and energy required.

The problem with that idea is that the Sisters stopped performing live after 1993 as well, only starting back up in '96.

In '94-95, he was willing to do just about anything... aside another studio album for EastWest. He talked about building up Merciful Release and supporting smaller acts. Also, in UTR, he admitted that he gave serious thought to going back to Uni and graduating. All those plans went to waste and what came out were support dates for the Sex Pistols. Those dates seemed to jolt him a bit, to get his arse back on the road on a regular basis. Easier money than the other things he'd tried in the intervening years.

euphoria wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 12:07 I also think he had not the slightest idea (like the rest of us) back then just how good business touring would prove to be, and that they would still be touring 30(!) years later. The good life the yearly tours has provided him with, is just another added welcome argument for him to not release anything.

It's an argument not to release anything, but touring was a way to keep the band alive and 'wait and see' what would happen with the labels and the industry. By the naughts, it was clear to him that no-one would cough up that advance. Meanwhile, touring and merch kept up as his bread and butter. No album at all was the way to go, as a self-funded one meant losing money. And he lacked the need to prove anything, artistically. What I mean is I doubt tours over albums was a clear-cut decision made all the way in the early 90's, rather than something that was encouraged by time and circumstance, and he went along with it.

copper wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 21:36

markfiend wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 10:54

copper wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 00:53 I guess he counted his beans and surmised that the live band is good business. Only a big advance would make any label deal equally profitable in relation to the time and energy required.

The problem with that idea is that the Sisters stopped performing live after 1993 as well, only starting back up in '96.

In '94-95, he was willing to do just about anything... aside another studio album for EastWest. He talked about building up Merciful Release and supporting smaller acts. Also, in UTR, he admitted that he gave serious thought to going back to Uni and graduating. All those plans went to waste and what came out were support dates for the Sex Pistols. Those dates seemed to jolt him a bit, to get his arse back on the road on a regular basis. Easier money than the other things he'd tried in the intervening years.

Exactly, your memory seems to work much better than mine ... ...
Though, I sometimes think there was some problem with Adam's hand so they had to get over the time until he was ready to perform again. But this is only some idea induced by Andrew saying something like "a right hand is a terrible thing to lose", which might be completely disconnected ... ...

Anyway apart from that, there were various Andrew Eldritch guest appearances and other contributions ... ...
https://sisterswiki.org/Andrew_Eldritch ... ppearances

paint it black wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 20:43 That was made to attract UK bookers to take the Sisters, because at that stage they were really struggling to find anyone. There was also a CD doing the rounds with the video as on the website and a higher quality audio which genuinely sounded like a studio track. It was being touted as a sampler from a forthcoming DVD. We know where that went.

The late Chris Sheehan was supposed to be putting the DVD together. Referring to him to NZ radio the first time they came here, Von said: "he left the band to pursue other interests... heroin". So there's that.

H. Blackrose wrote: ↑17 Nov 2022, 02:09

paint it black wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 20:43 That was made to attract UK bookers to take the Sisters, because at that stage they were really struggling to find anyone. There was also a CD doing the rounds with the video as on the website and a higher quality audio which genuinely sounded like a studio track. It was being touted as a sampler from a forthcoming DVD. We know where that went.

The late Chris Sheehan was supposed to be putting the DVD together. Referring to him to NZ radio the first time they came here, Von said: "he left the band to pursue other interests... heroin". So there's that.

Chris did prepare the DVD which was ready to promote. Von rejected it (I doubt wanted it, as it was a game to get live bookings) and it was then allegedly lost to a house fire (reptile house?) In Spain. Note also Jessica was filming all shows around that time. Von sold the rights to everything apart from his favourite, the reptile house, of which those were the most oft played vintage tracks, as a means to sucker old skool fans in.