Heartland

Carthage was in Tunisia until Rome destroyed it and salted the earth so the Carthiginians could never raise a sword against them again. Punic Wars.

http://www.barca.fsnet.co.uk/

http://www.tourismtunisia.com/togo/cart ... thage.html

Watch it little Tuscan boy.....I do know some history of the world outside of my own country. Now tell me, what famous man was Caesar's Uncle and who tried to have him killed for it and why?

markfiend wrote:I'm sure a couple of the Leeds folk on here must know Clint? But that's only...

Tuscan Chimaera wrote:...one black person who might (loosely) be termed a goth...

...that I know, too.

The one I knew was at Cambridge with me and not called Clint.

So that makes two

Black Planet wrote:Carthage was in Tunisia until Rome destroyed it and salted the earth so the Carthiginians could never raise a sword against them again. Punic Wars.

http://www.barca.fsnet.co.uk/

http://www.tourismtunisia.com/togo/cart ... thage.html

Watch it little Tuscan boy.....I do know some history of the world outside of my own country. Now tell me, what famous man was Caesar's Uncle and who tried to have him killed for it and why?

Marius? Sulla? But not because Marius was Caeser's uncle.

Stand up and be counted.

Tuscan Chimaera wrote:Marius? Sulla? But not because Marius was Caeser's uncle.

Stand up and be counted.

Yes. And yes.

Sulla killed his political enemies, and as Marius's nephew Caesar fell in that category. Sulla told Caesar to divorce his wife as as a symbolic act of his loyalty to the new regime, to which Caesar refused thus further endangering his life. In the end Marius let the young Caesar live, an act of clemency. Had Caesar not been related to Marius, he would not have been in danger. A little history for you Tuscan Boy.

There WAS a black punk with a bit of a gothicky thing going on who used to go to Edwards No 8 in Birmingham way back when in the late '80s...had a vivid, lime green Mohican but otherwise dressed in head to toe black pvc or rubber. Can't remember his real name...he used to get called 'Chocolate Lime' after some rather gross sweets you could buy then...

& there's Eddy who follows the Mish...not that he's especially goth.

Dunno why it's such a white thing. Now I come to think of it, it's not even changed since I was a kid - we've got 20% black/Asian students at the school where I teach, & a fair old number of spooky kid/mosher types (admittedly you can't always tell, given they all wear black uniforms, but generally an encouraging quantity of Alchemy metalwear & Manson hoodies in evidence on school trips) - & I can't think of even one example of overlap.

I *did* just ask a black lad I've got in detention if he could shed any light on this one, & he told me 'Well, you're a bunch of f***ing freaks, miss' - but then I'm not his favourite person atm anyway, so fair enough...

Black Planet wrote:

Tuscan Chimaera wrote:Marius? Sulla? But not because Marius was Caeser's uncle.

Stand up and be counted.

Yes. And yes.

Sulla killed his political enemies, and as Marius's nephew Caesar fell in that category. Sulla told Caesar to divorce his wife as as a symbolic act of his loyalty to the new regime, to which Caesar refused thus further endangering his life. In the end Marius let the young Caesar live, an act of clemency. Had Caesar not been related to Marius, he would not have been in danger. A little history for you Tuscan Boy.

Almost.

Your syntax let you down.

Tuscan Chimaera wrote:
I got to thinking how much white candy has taken to what is black music (rap, r'n'b et cet era) and yet how hopelessly inadequate they look dancing to it.

And it just seemed odd that the reverse doesn't happen. Is it because black people don't like the muzak? Why is that? Goth got no rhythm? Are blacks truer to their roots than white candy? Or is cod piece goth rock somehow racialist? etc.

Not something a care about hugely, but in the pursuit of stimulating debate, I thought it worth a pop.

Could be lots of things: it would probably be racist to suggest that black communities are more close-knit and thus less accepting of outside influence, though arguably that's no more racist than suggesting white kids are less true to their roots.

It could be that the crux of music is rebellion, and when you're already a minority you're less drawn to joining someone else's fringe.

It could be that from the outside the goth scene can appear a bit unwelcoming to people who don't conform to a fairly precise standard of dress and appearance .... and that white skin is very much a part of that image.

I don't think the scene is inherently racist, but it is self-consciously alternative. If you feel your social grouping is one which is still striving towards genuine mainstream acceptance, are you really likely to start aping a different minority fashion?

G had been there since about the age of 13, when he started at our school, and had helped me when I needed it most. He obviously knew my problem, why I had changed, though he never confronted it, just a few remarks here and there. Unfortunately, I never understood his. It didn’t dawn on me til years after that the reason we always got stopped from going into this one pub was blatant racism against him. He knew it, but it went straight over my head. He had a tremendous sense of style. I tried to follow, but failed miserably. He was another one with a mind of his own and a desire for more. Later, when he’d moved back to London, and I’d become vaguely aware of such things, I tritely asked him about his ‘Black Experience’. He said he never realised he was black til his parents moved out of London to my home town. Apart from him, there was one other black guy, who I assume was adopted cos I never saw any black adults except G’s parents. They were from Mauritius, so G spoke fluent French. I was top in French. He was black and cool. I wanted to be. We were made for each other. He was Black Shadow and I was Fetherlite.

mayhem wrote:I think that should be 'wise guys realise'

My version's better.

Glasgow of the 60s and previous, wouldn't be Glasgow of 04, without its Asian culture. I'm all for blending everything good that your tradition brings to the party. Mix and revel.

1. Toto's "Africa" RULES.
2. I'm friends with several black guys who frequent my favorite g*th/industrial watering hole, and who are totally into the music/image; around here, there are also a lot of Asians who are into the "scene". Then again, I live in Chicago, and not some white-bread, nightmarish suburb.

I might not be "black" but I was was born in Uganda and am of Indian origin.

Do any of you guys know a Sikh Goth with a turban!!? well that used to be me back in the days, not anymore though, cut my hair and look a bit less ridiculous now

Carrie wrote:There WAS a black punk with a bit of a gothicky thing going on who used to go to Edwards No 8 in Birmingham way back when in the late '80s...had a vivid, lime green Mohican but otherwise dressed in head to toe black pvc or rubber. Can't remember his real name...he used to get called 'Chocolate Lime' after some rather gross sweets you could buy then...

& there's Eddy who follows the Mish...not that he's especially goth.

Dunno why it's such a white thing. Now I come to think of it, it's not even changed since I was a kid - we've got 20% black/Asian students at the school where I teach, & a fair old number of spooky kid/mosher types (admittedly you can't always tell, given they all wear black uniforms, but generally an encouraging quantity of Alchemy metalwear & Manson hoodies in evidence on school trips) - & I can't think of even one example of overlap.

I *did* just ask a black lad I've got in detention if he could shed any light on this one, & he told me 'Well, you're a bunch of f***ing freaks, miss' - but then I'm not his favourite person atm anyway, so fair enough...