Fahrenheit 9/11

Does exactly what it says on the tin. Some of the nonsense contained herein may be very loosely related to The Sisters of Mercy, but I wouldn't bet your PayPal account on it. In keeping with the internet's general theme nothing written here should be taken as Gospel: over three quarters of it is utter gibberish, and most of the forum's denizens haven't spoken to another human being face-to-face for decades. Don't worry your pretty little heads about it. Above all else, remember this: You don't have to stay forever. I will understand.
CorpPunk
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FYI--I saw Michael Moore doing a talk/signing at a bookstore a couple of months ago, and apparently the DVD of 9/11 has his sources and supporting evidence outlined in full. I personally haven't seen the DVD, so I'm just sayin'.

I would like to mention that, whether you're pro- or anti-Moore, you really need to consider your sources. It seems that these days especially the most vocal commenters--or, at least, those who'll be heard and publicized--on anything political come from either the far right or far left. Their opinions catch headlines because they're inflammatory and make people buy papers. No, Bowling for Columbine wasn't one big fat lie, but neither was it pure truth. I think it's unfortunate that people in general are lazy and willing enough to cling to soundbites, wherever they come from, rather than do their own research and find their own truths.

And for the record, randdebiel, the American media as a whole adopted a policy of not questioning Bush's policies and decisions before, during, and quite a while after the war, a form of passive jingoism that even CNN fell victim to. Such inaction would appear a neutral stance, but it's hardly impartial. I consider not questioning your government's motives and actions for fear of being branded a "traitor" in a time of war just as bad as blindly promoting those actions (Fox News).

@ Ian: :notworthy: :notworthy:
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Ocean Moves
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@Ian

I agree, particularly with the latter part of your post.

in regard to F911, I thought it was a failure.
I dont think you can make a liberal film, attacking the current US
government, without it being professional, well structured and serious.

I thought it was an incoherant rant, much like some of MM's literature.

It was an opportunity wasted, in my opinion
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randdebiel²
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Ian - Rhythm Smurph wrote:Interesting I'll have a dig!

1)I didn't read that scene as the point being that they give a gun to anyone.
The point I took from that 'free gun' promotion was that MM was trying to suggest how ingrained the notion of gun ownership is and how 'normal' a commodity it was. Whether or not there was a background check policy was irrelevant, in fact I'd assumed that there was.
So maybe I am already filtering through the propaganda to a certain extent when watching his films.

If that scene was staged it is very disappointing, and it does annoy me!


2)To me MM is a patriotic American who is on a quest to understand why his country is going down the s**t - some of the biggest questions he was asking in BFC was why for instance if Canada has a higher per-capita gun ownership than the US, was their significantly less gun crime - he was I think trying to uncover the attitude or collective mental state of the nation which makes it so violent and understand how to fix it.

3)I feel the same way about the extremely childish attitude to alcohol in the UK. Drinking to excess being pretty much the excepted norm. The resultant street violence, injury, vandalism etc etc etc and the full A&E departments on Friday and Saturday nights seemingly being separated out in peoples minds from the drinking.
We think we can handle out booze in this country because we drink a lot - in fact if you act like a twit from pint 3 on wards you aren't handling you booze.

I think our attitude to alcohol is very similar to the American view of firearms. We think its our unalienable right to get wankered/carry a gun. Street fighting/kids shooting their class mates is just unfortunate and we refuse to see any cause and effect.

It about time we all grew up!
1)if I remember correctly he say something as "well, so if I sign here you will just give me the gun, right?" in which the woman responds "well yes of course", he admitted himself it was staged, now what REALLY annoyed me, is that the promotion existed in the bank he mentioned, but "to make his point" he had to corrupt his own argument by stagint he thing....I thought it was stupid because that's the way to break down your own argument
2)I agree about that, but I really hate him because he seems to cause more harm than good, of course when people watch his stuff that are already converted to his cause, they applaud because he says what they think, but when someone that doesn't agree ith him sees the movie, he'll be disgusted....
about the Canada thing, I heard by canadian people over the internet on another board (I think it was on www.wtaworld.com, I'll try to find the thread back) that a lot of what was said on it was false too, so again he did it there....
3)I fully agree with that,even though I like drinking :o
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randdebiel²
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CorpPunk wrote:
And for the record, randdebiel, the American media as a whole adopted a policy of not questioning Bush's policies and decisions before, during, and quite a while after the war, a form of passive jingoism that even CNN fell victim to. Such inaction would appear a neutral stance, but it's hardly impartial. I consider not questioning your government's motives and actions for fear of being branded a "traitor" in a time of war just as bad as blindly promoting those actions (Fox News).
ok, but I thought that was only about Iraq, not on the rest of his policy, and what I heard during the election time was that the media seemed to push kerry more, but of course I have only secondhand information on this since I didn't even have cable tv at that time...
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Ian - Rhythm Smurph
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This has been a very interesting.

Thanks one and all for an intelligent and stimulating debate!
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