Heartland

I'm a raging heathen. God was never alive as far as I'm concerned, and my outlook on matters spiritual are just about as far removed from Christianity as it's possible to get - I have an awful lot more sympathy with Mr. Lavey, truth be told.

But still, poor old Pope. I've never been able to get myself well and truly worked up about Christianity or Catholicism (I was brought up in a Catholic/Jesuit background), even though I count Nietschze among my favourite philosophers. I abhor the ideologies of most organised religion, I do believe it's the opium of the masses and have little respect for the junkies, but I think such a hierarchy is quite natural for the human race. There will always be leaders, spiritual and otherwise, and there will always be plenty of people willing to blindly follow them. As long as no-one forces me to, I don't really care. So as far as I'm concerned, the Pope is just a cuddly little old man.

What I wanna know is, is when is America gonna invade the Vatican? I mean, Bush has vowed war on non-democratic countries.... and could a country possibly be less democratic than the Vatican?

The Pope wrote:i think a church ruled by me would rock.

I remember when PJP2 used to rock

boudicca wrote:I'm a raging heathen. God was never alive as far as I'm concerned, and my outlook on matters spiritual are just about as far removed from Christianity as it's possible to get - I have an awful lot more sympathy with Mr. Lavey, truth be told.

But still, poor old Pope. I've never been able to get myself well and truly worked up about Christianity or Catholicism (I was brought up in a Catholic/Jesuit background), even though I count Nietschze among my favourite philosophers. I abhor the ideologies of most organised religion, I do believe it's the opium of the masses and have little respect for the junkies, but I think such a hierarchy is quite natural for the human race. There will always be leaders, spiritual and otherwise, and there will always be plenty of people willing to blindly follow them. As long as no-one forces me to, I don't really care. So as far as I'm concerned, the Pope is just a cuddly little old man.

Almost as impressively self-obsessed as I usually am. I need to work harder

andymackem wrote:

boudicca wrote:I'm a raging heathen. God was never alive as far as I'm concerned, and my outlook on matters spiritual are just about as far removed from Christianity as it's possible to get - I have an awful lot more sympathy with Mr. Lavey, truth be told.

But still, poor old Pope. I've never been able to get myself well and truly worked up about Christianity or Catholicism (I was brought up in a Catholic/Jesuit background), even though I count Nietschze among my favourite philosophers. I abhor the ideologies of most organised religion, I do believe it's the opium of the masses and have little respect for the junkies, but I think such a hierarchy is quite natural for the human race. There will always be leaders, spiritual and otherwise, and there will always be plenty of people willing to blindly follow them. As long as no-one forces me to, I don't really care. So as far as I'm concerned, the Pope is just a cuddly little old man.

Almost as impressively self-obsessed as I usually am. I need to work harder

Not far from the truth, probably . However, I don't imagine launching a crusade to rid the world of organised religion would do other people an awful lot of good, and there would be more than a little irony in being an anti-religion fundementalist. Live and let live.

I'm not being tempted into a religious argument (I won't, won't, won't ... oh, OK then).

If you think such a hierarchy is natural, and you choose to step aside from it, are you defining yourself as 'unnatural'?

And, by implication, are you not sneering at the common herd who accept, endorse and encourage this natural hierarchy?

* NOTE: at no point am I claiming these are good or bad things.

** NOTE 2: yet.

andymackem wrote:I'm not being tempted into a religious argument (I won't, won't, won't ... oh, OK then).

If you think such a hierarchy is natural, and you choose to step aside from it, are you defining yourself as 'unnatural'?

And, by implication, are you not sneering at the common herd who accept, endorse and encourage this natural hierarchy?

* NOTE: at no point am I claiming these are good or bad things.

** NOTE 2: yet.

Oh, do we have to do this? What's with all this forcing me to question my views, mackem?

In answer to your question, I do enjoy a good sneer at the "common herd", although I never claimed I was stepping aside from the hierarchy. Just don't think I'm on the lowest rung of it, that's all.
Now I realise how big-headed that sounds - I'm not suggesting I'm on the highest rung, either - there are people in this world who are vastly more intelligent than I am , and perhaps even more importantly, less foolish, older and wiser. But I have taken the time, since I was in my preteen years, to read widely and try and form a worldview that actually belonged to me. I was brought up well - despite all that pesky catholic stuff, I was encouraged to form my own opinions, particularly by may dad, who's a philosophy graduate. I endeavour to question everything, and to never hold any opinion I form so rigidly that I'm blind to any argument against it, and I think that does separate me from "the herd". I also know what Auschwitz was, which is apparently a rarity these days .
I don't think I'm alone, but I do think a minority of people think that way. People who have either been lucky in terms of who they've encountered early in life, who've been inspired to learn and think, and who've also made their own decisions to do so. I think that, for the most part, the heirarchy is not determined at birth, but by the circumstances of your upbringing, and also what you as an individual decide to do with them.

You could say it's class based, but I think that only applies up to a point. Our family has only a slightly above-average income, but my parents were wise enough to spend it on my education (I don't agree with private schooling but I'm glad I got the chance to go to one, the other option was very grim), rather than on fancy trainers, mobile phones and Playstation. My best friend at school had to do without central heating and a car to go to the school, but you'd have thought he was the most middle-class person you'd ever met. It's poverty of aspiration that makes a herd member, and there are sons and daughters of millionaires like that. The onyl reason I say all this is I think it would be easy to throw the "ignorant posh bitch" thing at me.

You're far too polite of course.

(ps sorry 'bout the thread folks! )

I just remembered -

"Why can't evolution science be taught in Kansas?

Someone has to grow up stupid and flip burgers for everybody else. It says so in the Bible."

Well, The Gods Hate Kansas anyway.

boudicca wrote: Oh, do we have to do this? What's with all this forcing me to question my views, mackem?

Well, I used to enjoy getting a reaction out of people by chasing them with electric cattle prods. Then the police told me I couldn't do that any more. It's a grotesque infringement of my civil liberties, but on-line wind-ups make a limited contribution to my mental well-being (Oh yes, you should see the other guys).

And you're right. I am far too polite. Thought you'd never notice.