Heartland

boudicca wrote:
Sorry, I have to gloat while I can...

Why? This is the one thing I really don't understand about the Scots. Obnoxious as the English can be on occasion, nine times out of ten when our own team is out of contention we'll lend a bit of friendly support to our immediate neighbours (except the French, obviously, but they talk funny and smell of garlic). In direct competition, I'd want to see England beat Scotland but otherwise I'd like to see the Scots (and Irish and even the Welsh) do well.

This attitude was severely tested when I was living in Scotland, though this was at a time where I'd spend an afternoon getting slated as England stuttered to a draw with someone like Bulgaria only to watch those jibes turn to ashes as the Jocks found themselves 2-0 down in Toftir or unable to score against Estonia. That possibly saved my affection for the tartan army.

Lebanon and Israel are in Europe

Well, as Andy has said, geologically speaking, Europe is part of the Eurasian plate.

Clicky giving brief overview of tectonics.

andymackem wrote:

boudicca wrote:
Sorry, I have to gloat while I can...

Why? This is the one thing I really don't understand about the Scots. Obnoxious as the English can be on occasion, nine times out of ten when our own team is out of contention we'll lend a bit of friendly support to our immediate neighbours (except the French, obviously, but they talk funny and smell of garlic). In direct competition, I'd want to see England beat Scotland but otherwise I'd like to see the Scots (and Irish and even the Welsh) do well.

This attitude was severely tested when I was living in Scotland, though this was at a time where I'd spend an afternoon getting slated as England stuttered to a draw with someone like Bulgaria only to watch those jibes turn to ashes as the Jocks found themselves 2-0 down in Toftir or unable to score against Estonia. That possibly saved my affection for the tartan army.

I can't speak for the nation here since, unlike many (most?) Scots, I not only have a great deal of affection for the English, I prefer them to "us" . I hate this country (apart from the places where no people live) and I'd love to get out. I'd like Scotland to be independant, but minus me.

We have a sad, bitter, defeatist attitude. And to be fair, we have been royally screwed over (royally being the operative word a lot of the time!) by our southern brethern, but we don't do ourselves any favours nowadays.

We talk about pride, but it's the nasty, aggressive sort, which doesn't seem to yield anything positive for us as a nation. It's the outward-looking, claymores raised kind of pride which is perhaps inevitable for a small country with our history... in comparison with the pride of a more dominant country (like England) which can slip into ignorance and smugness, but does look inwards, concentrating on maintaining it's own standards.

The English would be disgusted with themselves if the drew with the Pharoh Islands or whatever that result was... see the reaction to the NI game for evidence. We, on the other hand, would just go "Ah, well, we didn't expect to win really, sh!tey old Scotland but we love you. And by the way aren't the English a bunch of w@nkers?"

My comment was really not meant seriously. Patriot I ain't.
I'm European.

Hadrian had the right idea.

ruffers wrote:Hadrian had the right idea.

Recent research actually made clear Hadrian's Wall wasn't actually built by Hadrian

-goes to find clicky-

anyway

Well, of course the Emperor isn't going to have built the wall himself

No, no, it was something about it being built during the reign of another emperor or something, they found some pot of a soldier along the wall with the inscription of the wall's name back then on it IIRC...

But I can't find no clicky

Wiki says it was built by Hadrian.

*edit to correct the link. I hope

Ah, well, anyway, pretty sure there was something about misdating or something, but as I can't find it I'll let it rest

boudicca wrote:The English would be disgusted with themselves if the drew with the Pharoh Islands or whatever that result was... see the reaction to the NI game for evidence. We, on the other hand, would just go "Ah, well, we didn't expect to win really, sh!tey old Scotland but we love you. And by the way aren't the English a bunch of w@nkers?"

And that's what alarms me most about England - we do care slightly too much about our football/cricket/tennis results. I can't be alone in regarding the first 10 seconds of San Marino v England in 1993 as the funniest moment of my footballing life, but we are losing that sense of black humour. Witness the acres of hand-wringing about losing a not-hugely-important game in Belfast. It's (wait for it) only a game. And a funny one, of two halves, at that.

Pleased to see you're throwing Egypt into the 'where does Europe end?' debate, though. You might prefer the Faroe Islands next time

As for Hadrian's Wall, I'm sure my time in Glasgow introduced me to the existence of a Roman site called the Antonine Wall. IIRC it runs roughly through Boudicca's back garden and suggests that our Italian ancestors did make it a bit further north.

Also, in the first millenium AD the anglo-saxon kingdom of Northumbria certainly stretched up as far as modern-day Edinburgh. One might argue that historic Scotland only really incorporates the Highlands (where nobody lives). The rest is merely on loan from Rome, Westminster etc ....

andymackem wrote:

boudicca wrote:The English would be disgusted with themselves if the drew with the Pharoh Islands or whatever that result was... see the reaction to the NI game for evidence. We, on the other hand, would just go "Ah, well, we didn't expect to win really, sh!tey old Scotland but we love you. And by the way aren't the English a bunch of w@nkers?"

And that's what alarms me most about England - we do care slightly too much about our football/cricket/tennis results. I can't be alone in regarding the first 10 seconds of San Marino v England in 1993 as the funniest moment of my footballing life, but we are losing that sense of black humour. Witness the acres of hand-wringing about losing a not-hugely-important game in Belfast. It's (wait for it) only a game. And a funny one, of two halves, at that.

I'd be the first to agree football is taken way too seriously by some rather tragic emotionally stunted men who are more moved by one of Beckham's finer moments than by the birth of one of their children...

But the English attitude to their sporting victories/defeats is indicative of an attitude that we (the Scots) don't have. You don't expect failure, you don't anticipate defeat in the way we do. It is less painful to us, since we're more bloody used to it... rather too comfortable IMHO...

andymackem wrote:Pleased to see you're throwing Egypt into the 'where does Europe end?' debate, though. You might prefer the Faroe Islands next time

Just checking to see you're paying attention...

andymackem wrote:As for Hadrian's Wall, I'm sure my time in Glasgow introduced me to the existence of a Roman site called the Antonine Wall. IIRC it runs roughly through Boudicca's back garden

You're not wrong!

Oh dear... and I liked Scotland when gigging there last year... imagine that!

pandemon wrote:Oh dear... and I liked Scotland when gigging there last year... imagine that!

Hey, if it floats your boat... we need more immigrants at the moment... like me, this country is full of people just dying to leave...

andymackem wrote:historic Scotland only really incorporates the Highlands (where nobody lives).

EXCUSE ME

scotty wrote:

andymackem wrote:historic Scotland only really incorporates the Highlands (where nobody lives).

EXCUSE ME

You live in the nice bit, Scotty...

And it's been that much better since the outsiders came with the talking picture box and so on...
Do your Wee Free neighbours know that you sometimes use HL on a Sunday...














sorry!

@ Boudicca: if you're so desperate to leave, why are you still there? It's not like Scotland is some sort of Belorussian cold-war relic where your every thought and action is scrutinised by a police state who will turn you back at the Solway or Tweed.

You have the flexibility to go and live in most of Europe tomorrow morning, so go and do it.

As for Scottish independence, I did rather upset Alex Salmond once by asking him the practical difference between an independent Scotland ruled by Brussels and a semi-devolved Scotland ruled by Westminster (and Brussels). I'd still be interested in a sensible answer, though I can't seriously imagine getting one.

Escape is not always that easy, Andy. I'm now tied financially to Minas Morgul, ironically, as money is the only thing I really need to get out - and to stay alive here.

timsinister wrote:Escape is not always that easy, Andy.

Thank you, Tim.

You've saved me a tetchy rant. I owe you a drink...

boudicca wrote:

timsinister wrote:Escape is not always that easy, Andy.

Thank you, Tim.

You've saved me a tetchy rant. I owe you a drink...

Unnecessary. I know you want to escape almost as much as I do. Hang in there...

Indeed, escape is not always easy which is why I'm still in the South West.

scotty wrote:

andymackem wrote:historic Scotland only really incorporates the Highlands (where nobody lives).

EXCUSE ME

Do not worry scotty, we know how amazing those bites are....still coming to share that wine with you and the mrs.....one day

boudicca wrote:

timsinister wrote:Escape is not always that easy, Andy.

Thank you, Tim.

You've saved me a tetchy rant. I owe you a drink...

If you want to go, take a gamble and go. Or stay in your comfort zone and quit moaning.

Sorry if I seem unsympathetic, but really it isn't all that hard. You _can_ change your circumstances if you want to do it enough. Or you can talk about changing your circumstances while sitting around thinking of reasons why it can't be done.

andymackem wrote:

boudicca wrote:

timsinister wrote:Escape is not always that easy, Andy.

Thank you, Tim.

You've saved me a tetchy rant. I owe you a drink...

If you want to go, take a gamble and go. Or stay in your comfort zone and quit moaning.

Sorry if I seem unsympathetic, but really it isn't all that hard. You _can_ change your circumstances if you want to do it enough. Or you can talk about changing your circumstances while sitting around thinking of reasons why it can't be done.

*deep breath*

I suggest you don't make ignorant comments on my circumstances, or for that matter the life of anyone else you know nothing about.
Don't know what third-rate motivational bollocks you've absorbed via all those Lonely Planet books, but some people have valid, not to mention very unpleasant, distressing and above all personal, reasons for not being able to go off galavanting wherever and whenever they please.

Comfort zone? Don't make me laugh. That may have been your experience prior to your little world tour, but I'm not kept here by laziness of lack of will or motivation for my life to be different. There's nothing comfortable about it... I am genuinely desperate to leave and if I could, believe me I would. Judging others by your own standards... rarely a good idea.

I have long wondered what your beef is with me, but have tried to let your little remarks pass with a bit of good humour. You've crossed the line now.

If you have a problem, take it to PM. If you don't, can it.