Heartland

playboy wrote:

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:Maybe Wayne is brighter than I give him credit for.
On Saturday night, after the crowd had witnessed two brands of ersatz Sisters, WH was hardly going to play them the real thing in his DJ set - imagine the queue for gig ticket refunds ...

I don´t understand......

Just another failed attempted cheap jibe on my part. I really must grow up. On a more serious note - your comments about the aura having allegedly gone between 85 and 90 from live shows, I would say there are various potential explanations for this :

a) the Girls were now playing in bigger, less intimate venues ;
b) like many Sisters fans, you had moved on to other bands during the live "lull" (eg Pixies, Nephs, revitalised Iggy, Young Gods etc) and had either raised your expectations or got gig fatigue ;
c) you didn't like the (then) new material as much (as you have stated in many posts) and therefore weren't likely to "feel" it live in the way you obviously did with FALAA ;
d) there is of course the remote (IMHO) possibility that you are right !

mh wrote:I do wonder how much of that is Wayne playing up to what he thinks his audience expects, though?

Maybe but if he was trying to be tongue in cheek, he didn't carry it off well.

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:

playboy wrote:

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:Maybe Wayne is brighter than I give him credit for.
On Saturday night, after the crowd had witnessed two brands of ersatz Sisters, WH was hardly going to play them the real thing in his DJ set - imagine the queue for gig ticket refunds ...

I don´t understand......

Just another failed attempted cheap jibe on my part. I really must grow up. On a more serious note - your comments about the aura having allegedly gone between 85 and 90 from live shows, I would say there are various potential explanations for this :

a) the Girls were now playing in bigger, less intimate venues ;
b) like many Sisters fans, you had moved on to other bands during the live "lull" (eg Pixies, Nephs, revitalised Iggy, Young Gods etc) and had either raised your expectations or got gig fatigue ;
c) you didn't like the (then) new material as much (as you have stated in many posts) and therefore weren't likely to "feel" it live in the way you obviously did with FALAA ;
d) there is of course the remote (IMHO) possibility that you are right !

a) the venues I see them in now, like Mejeriet in Lund, KB in Malmo a few years ago, and the Stockholm gig have the same size as the venues I saw them in in 1985 actually. They are by far a lot smaller than in 1990-1993. At least the Sisters gigs I go to.

b) I have not really moved on to other bands, no other artist or band have had the same impact on me that the Sisters had. Of course I do not listen to Sisters much today but that is only because they have not released a record for 26 years. They are still good records though.
And for the record I do not listen to other bands in that, shall we say goth genre, I have never liked Nephs, Pixies were good but shortlived, when I was younger I listened to Jesus And Mary Chain, Psychedelic Furs, David Bowie, Pink Floyd, Madness, Mish, and a lot of other.... Today I still love all of the above more than anything else but don´t listen to them as much as they do not release very much new.... If I said what I am listening to most nowadays I would get too many comments from some sisters,goth,nephs and so-on fans.

c) well, I was so hooked and so into the band when I discovered them back in 1984. So in some sense they became a part of my life, they were my friends, my heroes. So of course it felt different initially when Floodland came out and gone were the muscians, left was Andrew and some chick! I didn´t see that coming I must admit. The music was good but the image of the Sisters with Andrew and Patricia kind of blurred me. And I couldn´t see them live as they didn´t tour which was no fun as I have loved to see them live. With Vision Thing it was agan first a feeling of "oh, new faces again", but this time it appeared to be a band and the record was mostly good. At that time I have some difficulties with a few songs that I thought were to direct and to hitlike which in one way was not bad but in another way was so far from what Sisters was used to do.
And I loved the gigs!!! So may songs never played live before. And they played the songs as they were on the records, as I love them, not speeding the songs away. The following two years the gigs were a thrill, spendid. But after 1993 nothing much has happened livewise and nothing at all recordwise.

c) I wouldn´t say I´m right. Neither wrong. It is just my personal point of view. That is how I grew up with them. Your first teenage heroes can be a strong thing. And they were my friends. Some of them are still my friends. I love the Sisters. But they just bore me with the same songs over and over and over and over and over live. I would say that about ANY band who keep on doing the same shows year after year. And the fact that they have not released a record for 26 years is for me a fact that says that they do not longer exist as a band who make songs in studios for the audience to hear. And I want that as well the live gigs.

Without wanting to prolong this debate too much further :

a) we are therefore agreeing - 1990/91 venues were bigger than 84/85 and more recently. the Girls are much better when you can actually see someone on stage merge from the dry ice once every ten minutes or so

b) "26 years" - still the obsession with FALAA !

c) "some chick" - just a tad disrespectful ?

d) Your comments here will resonate with about 90% of HLers I would imagine ... which is why people hang around here up to 30 years after being hooked, with the Girls still a part of their daily lives and their identity.

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:Without wanting to prolong this debate too much further :

a) we are therefore agreeing - 1990/91 venues were bigger than 84/85 and more recently. the Girls are much better when you can actually see someone on stage merge from the dry ice once every ten minutes or so

b) "26 years" - still the obsession with FALAA !

c) "some chick" - just a tad disrespectful ?

d) Your comments here will resonate with about 90% of HLers I would imagine ... which is why people hang around here up to 30 years after being hooked, with the Girls still a part of their daily lives and their identity.

a) agree

b) not obsessed, just like the record. Have not heard it for about five years or so though. And I was wrong, I meant 21 years. I meant Vision Thing. Of course FALAA was not their last release. Just a mistake from me.

c) Again, wrongly written or wrongly understood. It just felt that it was Andrew and a girl who was in the band just for visionary intentions. It felt much as a soloalbum and Patricia did not wrote a note and is not even certain she played. Anyway, the duo looked more like Erasure and Pet Shop Boys than The Sisters Of Mercy. I never saw Sister as a duo.

d) Sisters have been a very big part of my life. Nowadays the Sisters in my life is checking this site mostly when the are, or are about to tour. Not collecting anymore unless stumble into something really really interesting and last time that happened was about ten years ago. Used to follow them around Europe. Today I don´t travel more than two hours to see them. Used to bought A LOT of records, started collecting 1984, the year later I had 100 records. It grew till about maybe 400, I stopped counting. Have stopped collecting records with them as well, the last I bought was when the albums came out with the extra tracks some years ago.
Still love them. Am friends with some past members. But unlike 99 percent of the HL:s I don´t think about them everyday and I don´t play their records. I play with my sons.

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:c) "some chick" - just a tad disrespectful ?

well, she did eat all the pies...

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:Maybe Wayne is brighter than I give him credit for.
On Saturday night, after the crowd had witnessed two brands of ersatz Sisters, WH was hardly going to play them the real thing in his DJ set - imagine the queue for gig ticket refunds ...

But then he went and played Marian in his DJ set so maybe it was tongue in cheek after all.......

Mav787 wrote:

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:Maybe Wayne is brighter than I give him credit for.
On Saturday night, after the crowd had witnessed two brands of ersatz Sisters, WH was hardly going to play them the real thing in his DJ set - imagine the queue for gig ticket refunds ...

But then he went and played Marian in his DJ set so maybe it was tongue in cheek after all.......

Naturellement. Mr H, like most of us, has always enjoyed a bit of mischevious banter.

Quiff Boy wrote:

stufarq wrote:Agreed but, as a point of order, we all know that wasn't the reason for the "slight change of name for the stuff with James ray (and others) on vocals". That was definitely about Wayne.

i think it was more about protecting the brand than about getting back at wayne, tbh. that was just an added bonus.

i'm sure he'd have done something similar if gary (for example) had starting trying to use a variant of the sisters' name/brand.

and especially in wayne's case, he had only been in the band for about 18 months before the split, hence andrew feeling slightly peeved at him trying to leech off their established identity.

Yeah, I know. I just meant that it was a fight with Wayne.

Being645 wrote: ... show me ONE band that changed their name with their sound? When Craig***** left, that was surely a loss. But when other members decided to leave, because they wanted to make their own, different thing - I don't see why one should change the name of one's band then. There is no reason for that, especially when one wants to go on.
....

Only to correct myself:

Here*****, I had also thought of Gary, not of Craig.

Being645 wrote:

Being645 wrote: ... show me ONE band that changed their name with their sound? When Craig***** left, that was surely a loss. But when other members decided to leave, because they wanted to make their own, different thing - I don't see why one should change the name of one's band then. There is no reason for that, especially when one wants to go on.
....

Only to correct myself:

Here*****, I had also thought of Gary, not of Craig.

I kinda guessed that. But thanks pal anyway.

Cheers

playboy wrote:

Being645 wrote:

Being645 wrote: ... show me ONE band that changed their name with their sound? When Craig***** left, that was surely a loss. But when other members decided to leave, because they wanted to make their own, different thing - I don't see why one should change the name of one's band then. There is no reason for that, especially when one wants to go on.
....

Only to correct myself:

Here*****, I had also thought of Gary, not of Craig.

I kinda guessed that. But thanks pal anyway.

Cheers

Thanks playboy. I'm a girl, btw. ... which that doesn't mean all that much to me (apart from, basically, having drawn the short straw) ... ...

Being645 wrote:

playboy wrote:

Being645 wrote: Only to correct myself:

Here*****, I had also thought of Gary, not of Craig.

I kinda guessed that. But thanks pal anyway.

Cheers

Thanks playboy. I'm a girl, btw. ... which that doesn't mean all that much to me (apart from, basically, having drawn the short straw) ... ...

Sorry, I actually didn´t know. Thanks for letting me know, girl!

gallup wrote: fields of the nephilim anybody? i think von (as well as mccoy) made the bands what they are and when somebody thinks about the sisters of mercy he is hardly thinking about wayne or gary (and to be perfectly clear i like their "succesor" bands very much and the bands of wright brothers too). on the other hand, wayne and co. are the ones of those who actually achieved SOMETHING after the farewell with the alpha brain (in comparisson with rubicon, last rites, ghost dance, fools dance, presence, levinhurst...and many more)

Ooh...I couldn't disagree more about FOTN. It's not like Carl has produced glittering album after album since the split. Listen to the opening of "She" and tell me it doesn't sound like someone trying to play the opening of "The Watchman" on the banjolele. Both Eldritch and McCoy seem enamoured of power chords over actual ability and inspiration in their guitarists these days. Sissies haven't had a decent one since Varjak, and his best riff he ripped off The Stone Roses (never mind Andrew and Wayne being gay for each other, it'd be Andrew and Adam Pearson if anyone. How else he managed to stay in the band, contribute nothing but power chords and prevent Andrew from releasing anything on the net is beyond me!). The sound of both bands has changed, and they just don't sound anywhere near as good, so that tells me something vital is missing. With FOTN it's the Wrights, "Mourning Sun" misses them terribly(and a brave man with some scissors to cut three minutes off at least three tracks.).

Mourning Sun is Brilliant!

paul wrote:Mourning Sun is Brilliant!

Lots of people think so! Many people don't rate "Elyzium" as highly as I do, for that matter. But for me it sounded like Carl trying to be a cheesy Continental "goth-metal" band like Mandragora Scream or Tristania .

DeWinter wrote:

gallup wrote: fields of the nephilim anybody? i think von (as well as mccoy) made the bands what they are and when somebody thinks about the sisters of mercy he is hardly thinking about wayne or gary (and to be perfectly clear i like their "succesor" bands very much and the bands of wright brothers too). on the other hand, wayne and co. are the ones of those who actually achieved SOMETHING after the farewell with the alpha brain (in comparisson with rubicon, last rites, ghost dance, fools dance, presence, levinhurst...and many more)

Ooh...I couldn't disagree more about FOTN. It's not like Carl has produced glittering album after album since the split. Listen to the opening of "She" and tell me it doesn't sound like someone trying to play the opening of "The Watchman" on the banjolele. Both Eldritch and McCoy seem enamoured of power chords over actual ability and inspiration in their guitarists these days. Sissies haven't had a decent one since Varjak, and his best riff he ripped off The Stone Roses (never mind Andrew and Wayne being gay for each other, it'd be Andrew and Adam Pearson if anyone. How else he managed to stay in the band, contribute nothing but power chords and prevent Andrew from releasing anything on the net is beyond me!). The sound of both bands has changed, and they just don't sound anywhere near as good, so that tells me something vital is missing. With FOTN it's the Wrights, "Mourning Sun" misses them terribly(and a brave man with some scissors to cut three minutes off at least three tracks.).

I think I've agreed with you about Mourning Sun in the past. I still agree.

I do think that the current TSOM stonk-a-thon would probably sound quite excellent on a record, given the right production. I also think unicorns exist, and that if they are fed a steady diet of tacos they will defecate large, perfectly cut gemstones.

sultan2075 wrote:I also think unicorns exist, and that if they are fed a steady diet of tacos they will defecate large, perfectly cut gemstones.

I've tried that experiment. Turns out they just get really painful diarrhoea.

DeWinter wrote: Ooh...I couldn't disagree more about FOTN.

well, musically you`ve got the point, but what about "the vision"? what about the lyrics? i have my doubts about the wrights or gary beeing able to achieve this kind of influence all by themselves (without carl or andrew). one last thing, there is something (or in the case of mr. von there was ) a thing called "trademark vocal". imagine cure without smith, depeche mode without gahan...there is a bunch of bands who changed their lead vocalist (theatre of tragedy, nightwish...even genesis were not that lucky for the second time) and it didn`t go quite right with their fans. so, conclusion: even the contribution of other members of tsom and fotn was huge, it was mainly von and mccoy, who created "the spell".

Pixies a goth band? Lol!

gallup wrote:

DeWinter wrote: Ooh...I couldn't disagree more about FOTN.

well, musically you`ve got the point, but what about "the vision"? what about the lyrics? i have my doubts about the wrights or gary beeing able to achieve this kind of influence all by themselves (without carl or andrew). one last thing, there is something (or in the case of mr. von there was ) a thing called "trademark vocal". imagine cure without smith, depeche mode without gahan...there is a bunch of bands who changed their lead vocalist (theatre of tragedy, nightwish...even genesis were not that lucky for the second time) and it didn`t go quite right with their fans. so, conclusion: even the contribution of other members of tsom and fotn was huge, it was mainly von and mccoy, who created "the spell".

FOTN were a whole that was greater than the sum of its parts. Carl has put out one stunningly good record (Zoon) without them, and has since plodded on in general mediocrity. Mourning Sun proves that Carl needed those other folk around him. Rubicon proved that they needed Carl (or at least someone who didn't try to sound like Eddie Vedder).

Aazhyd wrote:Pixies a goth band? Lol!

They are not. Noone here have ever said that. Or?

playboy wrote:

Aazhyd wrote:Pixies a goth band? Lol!

They are not. Noone here have ever said that. Or?

I didn't even know Herman was a member of this site!

Aazhyd wrote:Pixies a goth band? Lol!

With a name like that they'd have to be either goth or prog.

playboy wrote: And for the record I do not listen to other bands in that, shall we say goth genre, I have never liked Nephs, Pixies were good but shortlived,

It was this quote I was referring to. And if you don't know the Pixies, shame on you!