On the other hand, there is Joy Division/New Order to consider. (And Martin Gore does sing a lot of DM tracks too.... - hell, Doug Yule even sang Candy Says!)gallup wrote:well, musically you`ve got the point, but what about "the vision"? what about the lyrics? i have my doubts about the wrights or gary beeing able to achieve this kind of influence all by themselves (without carl or andrew). one last thing, there is something (or in the case of mr. von there was ) a thing called "trademark vocal". imagine cure without smith, depeche mode without gahan...there is a bunch of bands who changed their lead vocalist (theatre of tragedy, nightwish...even genesis were not that lucky for the second time) and it didn`t go quite right with their fans. so, conclusion: even the contribution of other members of tsom and fotn was huge, it was mainly von and mccoy, who created "the spell".DeWinter wrote: Ooh...I couldn't disagree more about FOTN.
Wayne on the Sisters.....
If I told them once, I told them a hundred times to put 'Spinal Tap' first and 'Puppet Show' last.
I was responding to what nikolas wrote:Aazhyd wrote:It was this quote I was referring to. And if you don't know the Pixies, shame on you!playboy wrote: And for the record I do not listen to other bands in that, shall we say goth genre, I have never liked Nephs, Pixies were good but shortlived,
"b) like many Sisters fans, you had moved on to other bands during the live "lull" (eg Pixies, Nephs, revitalised Iggy, Young Gods etc) and had either raised your expectations or got gig fatigue"
Iggy is not goth either.
I have liked the Pixies 1986, saw them live in the late eighties. A few years later they broke up. Shortlived, as I stated.
The main thing, which might not have been apparant enough, was that I don´t care for gothbands at all. (No, I do not label Sisters as a goth band)
If you somehow thought I meant they were goth, then shame on you.
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Aazhyd
- Amphetamine Filth
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So you are not a goth either?playboy wrote:If you somehow thought I meant they were goth, then shame on you.
(That's what all goths say.)
Only the Americans could have built a place like this in the middle of a jungle.
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Silver_Owl
- The Don
- Posts: 7498
- Joined: 27 Sep 2003, 18:52
The Sisters ARE NOT goff.
We forgive as we forget
As the day is long.
As the day is long.
Does it makes me a goth loving Sisters? Even if the last concert I went to was Britney Spears?Aazhyd wrote:So you are not a goth either?playboy wrote:If you somehow thought I meant they were goth, then shame on you.
(That's what all goths say.)
Exactly! Sisters are seriously entertaining. Most goffs are just "serious", or at least trying to be.... the tend to forget to entertain at a serious level. Goffsbands like other goffbands. Goffs socialize with other goffs. Take a look at Andrew, read is opinion about goff. Then go figure.Hom_Corleone wrote:The Sisters ARE NOT goff.
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moses
- Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
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At least they had the forethought to change their name and not sing any (released) Joy Division songs.mh wrote:
On the other hand, there is Joy Division/New Order to consider.
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity
Well, their singer committed suicide ...moses wrote:At least they had the forethought to change their name and not sing any (released) Joy Division songs.mh wrote:
On the other hand, there is Joy Division/New Order to consider.
...And @ playboy & Hom ...
...absolutely, The Sisters have never been "Goth", except for one short period of time,
when one of their guitarists tried to make them his personal religious order ... but he
failed, and naturally so, for The Sisters have always been an industrial groove machine
- and intellectual love gods ...
... no preachers and their following ... 
...-
Quiff Boy
- Herr Administrator
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- Contact:
the sisters weren't goths. goths copied the sisters.
...
...
...
which in time meant that the sisters became the very definition of goth.
...
...
...
and then floodland happened and things came full circle. the sisters became goth, albeit briefly.
...
...
...
and then vision thing happened, and they became nothing really. a bit rock, a bit goth, a bit of everything. and nothing.
...
...
...
and then nothing else happened and they became largely irrelevant to most people, apart from the die hards. and the goths, who hung on to them and andrew's whole "love to hate you" thing.
if you're really looking to pigeon-hole bands into genres, there's an argument to say that a band are defined by their fans. and like it or not, that would mean the sisters are a goth band. because a great majority of their fans are or were goths. just because you (that's the royal "you", btw) might not have been a goth doesn't mean that 90% of their other fans weren't either. look around, they were, and still are for the most part.
everything else is just eldritch in denial and the fans towing the party line.
...
...
...
which in time meant that the sisters became the very definition of goth.
...
...
...
and then floodland happened and things came full circle. the sisters became goth, albeit briefly.
...
...
...
and then vision thing happened, and they became nothing really. a bit rock, a bit goth, a bit of everything. and nothing.
...
...
...
and then nothing else happened and they became largely irrelevant to most people, apart from the die hards. and the goths, who hung on to them and andrew's whole "love to hate you" thing.
if you're really looking to pigeon-hole bands into genres, there's an argument to say that a band are defined by their fans. and like it or not, that would mean the sisters are a goth band. because a great majority of their fans are or were goths. just because you (that's the royal "you", btw) might not have been a goth doesn't mean that 90% of their other fans weren't either. look around, they were, and still are for the most part.
everything else is just eldritch in denial and the fans towing the party line.
What’s the difference between a buffalo and a bison?
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James Blast
- Banned
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Can the world really be such a sad place?
"And when you start to think about death, you start to think about what's after it. And then you start hoping there is a God. For me, it's a frightening thought to go nowhere".
~ Peter Steele
~ Peter Steele
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ribbons69
- Slight Overbomber
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Of course they are. They helped invent it for Chrissakes!Hom_Corleone wrote:The Sisters ARE NOT goff.
Sorry Sabine
"I've seen Andrew Eldritch in an ice hockey shirt onstage, and I've given him the benefit of the doubt"
Tom G Warrior of Celtic Frost
we fall to rise
Tom G Warrior of Celtic Frost
we fall to rise
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James Blast
- Banned
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who the fuck are then?Hom_Corleone wrote:The Sisters ARE NOT goff.
"And when you start to think about death, you start to think about what's after it. And then you start hoping there is a God. For me, it's a frightening thought to go nowhere".
~ Peter Steele
~ Peter Steele
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_rockJames Blast wrote:who the fuck are then?Hom_Corleone wrote:The Sisters ARE NOT goff.
ribbons69 wrote:Of course they are. They helped invent it for Chrissakes!Hom_Corleone wrote:The Sisters ARE NOT goff.
No, they did not invented it. They advanced it, proved that it could actually rock and that it could involve politic.
Sorry Sabine
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James Blast
- Banned
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- Joined: 11 Jun 2003, 18:58
- Location: back from some place else
I can do it toplayboy wrote:ribbons69 wrote:Of course they are. They helped invent it for Chrissakes!Hom_Corleone wrote:The Sisters ARE NOT goff.
No, they did not invented it. They advanced it, proved that it could actually rock and that it could involve politic.
Sorry Sabine
"And when you start to think about death, you start to think about what's after it. And then you start hoping there is a God. For me, it's a frightening thought to go nowhere".
~ Peter Steele
~ Peter Steele
This is amphetamine logic....Quiff Boy wrote:the sisters weren't goths. goths copied the sisters.
...
.. there's an argument to say that a band are defined by their fans. and like it or not, that would mean the sisters are a goth band. because a great majority of their fans are or were goths. just because you (that's the royal "you", btw) might not have been a goth doesn't mean that 90% of their other fans weren't either. look around, they were, and still are for the most part.
everything else is just eldritch in denial and the fans towing the party line.
So, if a great majority of the fans are or were gay, it meant that Andrew is gay? And, of course, Robbie Williams is actually a woman since the great majority of his fans are girls..
No, the fans does not make a band anything. At all.
Goths just have difficulties in moving on. If Andrew made a jazzalbum I am sure the goths would buy the album anyway. But it does not meen that jazz suddenly is goth.
you can do what to what?James Blast wrote:I can do it toplayboy wrote:ribbons69 wrote: Of course they are. They helped invent it for Chrissakes!
No, they did not invented it. They advanced it, proved that it could actually rock and that it could involve politic.
Sorry Sabine
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markfiend
- goriller of form 3b
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*Edit: I forgot to post my comment:Quiff Boy wrote:if you're really looking to pigeon-hole bands into genres, there's an argument to say that a band are defined by their fans. and like it or not, that would mean the sisters are a goth band. because a great majority of their fans are or were goths. just because you (that's the royal "you", btw) might not have been a goth doesn't mean that 90% of their other fans weren't either. look around, they were, and still are for the most part.
everything else is just eldritch in denial and the fans towing the party line.
Totally agreed. Goths in denial are still goths.
And I should know.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
You think Floodland is their most goth album? And not, say, FALAA with its doom-laden tunes and twiddly guitars and songs with "Black" in the title and will you just look at those shirts?Quiff Boy wrote:and then floodland happened and things came full circle. the sisters became goth, albeit briefly.
... no worries, ribbons ...ribbons69 wrote:Of course they are. They helped invent it for Chrissakes!Hom_Corleone wrote:The Sisters ARE NOT goff.
Sorry Sabine
... for whatever The Sisters are, I love my goth fellow-Sisters fans as much as any others ... And how does it say on some persons pretty website: ... Fuck yeah, Sisters!...
...@ Quiff
Oh yes, I forgot that second short episode with Patricia ...
but that doesn't make Floodland a Goth album. To me it's Pop (especially This Corrosion),
it's Rock (of the melodic ballad-laden type), and it's very real ... no say, Goth-like esoterisms ...
And Vision Thing is of course nothing but pure Rock ...
...@ playboy
Did I tell you I'm pretty sure that the secret Sisters album hidden in the very last corner of some late 90ies cupboard is full of Reggae ...
...EDIT:
@ James
I can do it as well ...
... it's just say, temperament ... but hell, at least and mostly not hystery ...
Last edited by Being645 on 03 Nov 2011, 01:24, edited 2 times in total.
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Caravaggio
- Road Kill
- Posts: 68
- Joined: 26 May 2008, 18:56
Sorry people, but isn't it kind of boring, that the "Wayne on the sisters..."-thread is the most vivid thread in this forum... 
There have been better plans
But none that I could ever understand...
But none that I could ever understand...
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Nikolas Vitus Lagartija
- Overbomber
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Mick Mercer, who seems (over the past twenty years) to have made quite a profitable career out of setting himself up as the authority on all things Goff, was never a fan of the Girls and seems to have included them in later publications almost out of economic expediency. 
deserves credit for not allowing any of his compositions onto MM's compilations.
But The Sisters were never a scene band - even if lazy journalists shoved them in a "The North doth rise again" pigeonhole in the early 80s with the Violets, the Lorries and (!) the Three Johns on the grounds that they all had the mechanised clank of the drum machine which mirrored the North's grimy industrial heritage (cont'd page 94).
I agree with QB that the real Goffs were the po-faced copyists (Rosetta Stone, Marionettes et al) who bought into a certian look and sound which others had created and took it to humourless parody, lapped up largely by a small group of people too young to have seen the originals. By the time the G word was coined in the musical context, the bands who inspired the copyists (Sisters, Siouxsie, Bauhaus, UK Decay, SGC, ASF et al) had all either split up or moved on.
And whilst we're on the subject of TSOM's genre, I never bought into the "industrial" part of Von's "groove machine" epithet. Even at their wilder moments (eg Ribbons), The Sisters were hardly Ministry...
deserves credit for not allowing any of his compositions onto MM's compilations.But The Sisters were never a scene band - even if lazy journalists shoved them in a "The North doth rise again" pigeonhole in the early 80s with the Violets, the Lorries and (!) the Three Johns on the grounds that they all had the mechanised clank of the drum machine which mirrored the North's grimy industrial heritage (cont'd page 94).
I agree with QB that the real Goffs were the po-faced copyists (Rosetta Stone, Marionettes et al) who bought into a certian look and sound which others had created and took it to humourless parody, lapped up largely by a small group of people too young to have seen the originals. By the time the G word was coined in the musical context, the bands who inspired the copyists (Sisters, Siouxsie, Bauhaus, UK Decay, SGC, ASF et al) had all either split up or moved on.
And whilst we're on the subject of TSOM's genre, I never bought into the "industrial" part of Von's "groove machine" epithet. Even at their wilder moments (eg Ribbons), The Sisters were hardly Ministry...
For which we should be eternally grateful. The "indistrial" part is actually a reference to a much older definition of "industrial" (before certain other bands hijacked it) (but not the oldest) and would include certain elements of the Sisters output in a similar category as Front 242, Skinny Puppy and Front Line Assembly. The Gift LP and much of Floodland certainly fits in here.Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:And whilst we're on the subject of TSOM's genre, I never bought into the "industrial" part of Von's "groove machine" epithet. Even at their wilder moments (eg Ribbons), The Sisters were hardly Ministry...
If I told them once, I told them a hundred times to put 'Spinal Tap' first and 'Puppet Show' last.