Heartland

DeWinter wrote:

Being645 wrote:

playboy wrote: You are so right. And I must say it is sad. Time seems to stand still in Sisters-land. I still can see Susanne as a new song but hell, it is soon 14 years old.

One thing I don´t understand though - Andrew keeps telling that he doesn´t like to look back, doesn´t want to the gigs to be a nostalgia trip, trying to re-invent the band.
Still, playing the old songs, identical show every year, very few new songs.

It is not the brightest thing to play No Time To Cry, A Rock And A Hard Place, Marian, First And Last And Always, Anaconda, Alice, Body Electric, This Corriosion, More, Ribbons, Vision Thing, Train, Detonation Boulevard, Temple Of Love etc and at the samt time trying to ignore the past. As long as these songs are played and no album is released the past will haunt him.

Very wrong, playboy. It's not some abstract past that haunts him, but acutal people who spare no effort to talk everything down he undertakes, not at the least thinking of - just for example - the fact that The Sisters have mostly been a band and as such consist of more than only one member. But belittling all other members - nowadays as much as in the past - as hired hands ... or dumping whatever other dirt at hand over them is just so easy and sounds just so simple and therefore catchy.

And this would of course not change with some new release. For the purpose is clearly the very same it was back in the days - to win them/him over by provocation, by frustration, by manipulation, by propaganda ... like the common territorial pisser at the corner of your garden ... sorry to say, but that's just too obvious.

Nothing I've said is untrue though.

As for Andrew "The bastard public/derelict spiv nation/we're a rock and roll band, what did you come dressed as??*" Taylor, he has made his contempt for his own fanbase abundantly clear over the years. That's why it's diminishing and the band are playing smaller venues. Can't be too surprised if that gets sent right back at him from his former fanbase.If he releases anything new and it's good, I'll happily pay to listen to it at home and live. As it is, he hasn't for donkeys years. So he can go p*ss up a rope and get some other poor sap willing to spend their hard-earned on watching him live and paying for him to do bugger all. The idea that I'd try and provoke him into releasing something is almost as daft as him actually doing that.

*
There's an article on a German fansite mentioning that little witticism, and a reply from someone actually at the concert. Apparently the lady in question was a rather chatty and pleasant lady, who was almost in tears at that little public humiliation Taylor dumped on her. They had to persuade her she misheard what he'd actually said. Amusingly the crowd did start chanting "F*ck off Eldritch" at him at one concert. You gets what you gives..

I totally agree, Sir!

_emma_ wrote:

playboy wrote:

lachert wrote:wonder, is this s**t back every autumn?

wonder, is the same setlist back every year?

But the setlists do change.
And

playboy wrote:by the way, the fans used to understand the Sisters, and Andrew understood us. It was Sisters + the fans, there was a relation between the two. We were on the same side, believe it or not.
Looking at the fact that Andrew has grown and looking forward while the fans remains the same, lingering on to the gothic lifestile, it is understandable that Andrew no longer is on the same side as the fans, and no longer is giving us what we want.

The way you put it, it seems like "the fans" (or "we", as you name it later) are one big organism with one heart, one soul and one mind. I feel that I must openly disagree with this. "The fans" are multiple, various, and often totally different people, and I'm absolutely undoubtedly sure that amongst them there is a considerable number of people who understand The Sisters, and who are understood by them, and I am also sure that there is a very positive relation between the two, and that they are both still on the very same side.

The setlist do change???????
Exactly how??
They change around in the setlist like most bands do on longer tours. But most bands change a LOT more in the setlist from tour to tour, don´t you think?
For example, I saw them two years ago. At a show this year they played all the songs from that show, two years earlier, but one. ONE song....

playboy wrote:
The setlist do change???????
Exactly how??

They play Good Things in Belgium.

_emma_ wrote:

playboy wrote:by the way, the fans used to understand the Sisters, and Andrew understood us. It was Sisters + the fans, there was a relation between the two. We were on the same side, believe it or not.
Looking at the fact that Andrew has grown and looking forward while the fans remains the same, lingering on to the gothic lifestile, it is understandable that Andrew no longer is on the same side as the fans, and no longer is giving us what we want.

The way you put it, it seems like "the fans" (or "we", as you name it later) are one big organism with one heart, one soul and one mind. I feel that I must openly disagree with this. "The fans" are multiple, various, and often totally different people, and I'm absolutely undoubtedly sure that amongst them there is a considerable number of people who understand The Sisters, and who are understood by them, and I am also sure that there is a very positive relation between the two, and that they are both still on the very same side.

You say it, _emma_ ... ...

... and not to mention the wide majority of fans at the gigs who never ever heard of this or
any other forum. None of those, I've talked to, was disappointed with any of the gigs this year!
And in this regard one might also note that after gigs the number of newly registered forum members rises regularly ... ...

And of course, the setlists do change ... and have never been changed as much as this year!!!

Anyway, I see there's no help to people going to gigs without listening ...
It seems they have a song in their head and concentrate on repeating their own idea of it,
So, at the very moment the band play the same song live in quite a different way than last week only,
not to mention last year or on record, those funny people keep stubbornly waiting for - news ... ...

playboy wrote: Aha, you are talking about Roy Orbison. All dressed in black, dark shades, dark hair etc etc. He is more goth than Andrew. He never stopped his black look. The gothfather himself.
Not to mention Lasse Åberg. If you don´t know him look him up. May not look like a goth but he once said: "I´m wearing black till I find something darker".
Now we´re talking goth........

You're trying too hard. Does it really matter? Just let it go.

Quiff Boy wrote:bix beiderbecke and the chorus of vengeance, anyone?

And if you don't wanna be described as goth, don't call your band The Chorus of Vengeance. (Especially when you've already called them The Sisterhood.)

Being645 wrote:Anyway, I see there's no help to people going to gigs without listening ...
It seems they have a song in their head and concentrate on repeating their own idea of it,

That's the only way they'll be able to hear anything.

DeWinter wrote: So in order to get rid of said label he hired a woman for Floodland with Black Number Nine hair teased a foot high, with Eye of Horus eyeliner clad in bits of lace and black vinyl. And of course himself wore black from dyed head to pointy booted toe?
Let's face it, he rode the Goth wave when it was fashionable and ditched it when it wasn't

And to get back on topic, the success of Wayne's band in the UK charts in 86 must also surely have been part of the motivation for to get his act together and release the chart friendly trilogy of singles from Floodland, get the lead one produced by Steinman, and play up to the goff image on the expensive videos to promote them. "Riding the goth wave" was crucial to the success of the "m*****n of revenge", with TSOM releases charting higher than those of Hussey's troupe, and Von gtting the upper hand again in the playground spat which, incredibly, rumbles on today.
As for this thread being futile, I for one find it more interesting and fundamental than, say, looking at photos of twenty year old t-shirts or wondering how many different coloured labels there are on a bootleg CD re-release of a bootleg vinyl release from a quarter of a century ago.

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:
As for this thread being futile, I for one find it more interesting and fundamental than, say, looking at photos of twenty year old t-shirts or wondering how many different coloured labels there are on a bootleg CD re-release of a bootleg vinyl release from a quarter of a century ago.

... ... well, I find both enjoyable, interesting and entertaining ... ...

The best and most essential are, however, The Sisters' gigs ... ...

stufarq wrote:

playboy wrote: Aha, you are talking about Roy Orbison. All dressed in black, dark shades, dark hair etc etc. He is more goth than Andrew. He never stopped his black look. The gothfather himself.
Not to mention Lasse Åberg. If you don´t know him look him up. May not look like a goth but he once said: "I´m wearing black till I find something darker".
Now we´re talking goth........

You're trying too hard. Does it really matter? Just let it go.

Quiff Boy wrote:bix beiderbecke and the chorus of vengeance, anyone?

And if you don't wanna be described as goth, don't call your band The Chorus of Vengeance. (Especially when you've already called them The Sisterhood.)

Being645 wrote:Anyway, I see there's no help to people going to gigs without listening ...
It seems they have a song in their head and concentrate on repeating their own idea of it,

That's the only way they'll be able to hear anything.

No, it does not matter at all to me. But but for some reason it matters a lot for some to put sisters into a genre (the goth genre, of course).

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:

DeWinter wrote: So in order to get rid of said label he hired a woman for Floodland with Black Number Nine hair teased a foot high, with Eye of Horus eyeliner clad in bits of lace and black vinyl. And of course himself wore black from dyed head to pointy booted toe?
Let's face it, he rode the Goth wave when it was fashionable and ditched it when it wasn't

And to get back on topic, the success of Wayne's band in the UK charts in 86 must also surely have been part of the motivation for to get his act together and release the chart friendly trilogy of singles from Floodland, get the lead one produced by Steinman, and play up to the goff image on the expensive videos to promote them. "Riding the goth wave" was crucial to the success of the "m*****n of revenge", with TSOM releases charting higher than those of Hussey's troupe, and Von gtting the upper hand again in the playground spat which, incredibly, rumbles on today.
As for this thread being futile, I for one find it more interesting and fundamental than, say, looking at photos of twenty year old t-shirts or wondering how many different coloured labels there are on a bootleg CD re-release of a bootleg vinyl release from a quarter of a century ago.

It shows just how much there are to discuss really. We have to do something, though. If the Sisters aren´t active, we have to be, at least.
It happened more every month within the band then than it does for three years nowadays.

Being645 wrote:

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:
As for this thread being futile, I for one find it more interesting and fundamental than, say, looking at photos of twenty year old t-shirts or wondering how many different coloured labels there are on a bootleg CD re-release of a bootleg vinyl release from a quarter of a century ago.

... ... well, I find both enjoyable, interesting and entertaining ... ...

The best and most essential are, however, The Sisters' gigs ... ...

And even if not the best, it is the only thing, if we want to talk about the present and future sisters.

Being645 wrote:

playboy wrote:

DeWinter wrote: Not much else to discuss regarding the band now. There won't be another album, the new songs are ten years old and mediocre at best, and the band has a reputation for ok to abysmal live performances of the songs nobody much likes played by average hired hands. Largely why I went off the band and drift back into them when I come across "This Corrosion" in the "Alternative 80's" page in the jukebox!

You are so right. And I must say it is sad. Time seems to stand still in Sisters-land. I still can see Susanne as a new song but hell, it is soon 14 years old.

One thing I don´t understand though - Andrew keeps telling that he doesn´t like to look back, doesn´t want to the gigs to be a nostalgia trip, trying to re-invent the band.
Still, playing the old songs, identical show every year, very few new songs.

It is not the brightest thing to play No Time To Cry, A Rock And A Hard Place, Marian, First And Last And Always, Anaconda, Alice, Body Electric, This Corriosion, More, Ribbons, Vision Thing, Train, Detonation Boulevard, Temple Of Love etc and at the samt time trying to ignore the past. As long as these songs are played and no album is released the past will haunt him.

Very wrong, playboy..

Somebody is obviously thinking the same. Somone nicked my sentence "Andrew keeps telling that he doesn´t like to look back, doesn´t want to the gigs to be a nostalgia trip, trying to re-invent the band.
Still, playing the old songs" and posted it in Chris Catalysts formspring.

I wonder if I ever get to know who.....

playboy wrote: Somebody is obviously thinking the same. Somone nicked my sentence "Andrew keeps telling that he doesn´t like to look back, doesn´t want to the gigs to be a nostalgia trip, trying to re-invent the band.
Still, playing the old songs" and posted it in Chris Catalysts formspring.

I wonder if I ever get to know who.....

... well surely not me. I wouldn't know anything so very interesting to ask.
But I've looked it up now ... and hey, why didn't you post Chris' answer:

Chris wrote: We've brought new/different songs into the set every year. If you don't like it, don't buy a ticket. It's quite simple.

... but then you'd miss the best of it ... ...

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:

DeWinter wrote: So in order to get rid of said label he hired a woman for Floodland with Black Number Nine hair teased a foot high, with Eye of Horus eyeliner clad in bits of lace and black vinyl. And of course himself wore black from dyed head to pointy booted toe?
Let's face it, he rode the Goth wave when it was fashionable and ditched it when it wasn't

And to get back on topic, the success of Wayne's band in the UK charts in 86 must also surely have been part of the motivation for to get his act together and release the chart friendly trilogy of singles from Floodland, get the lead one produced by Steinman, and play up to the goff image on the expensive videos to promote them. "Riding the goth wave" was crucial to the success of the "m*****n of revenge", with TSOM releases charting higher than those of Hussey's troupe, and Von gtting the upper hand again in the playground spat which, incredibly, rumbles on today.
As for this thread being futile, I for one find it more interesting and fundamental than, say, looking at photos of twenty year old t-shirts or wondering how many different coloured labels there are on a bootleg CD re-release of a bootleg vinyl release from a quarter of a century ago.

Mmmm,the singles probably did chart higher,but Wayne and the gang were headlining festivals and arena's while Andrew was still playing with his keyboards in his bedroom. I believe that it was seeing The Mish playing such high profile tours and gigs that prompted Von to "put the band back together" He certainly never gave any indication of wanting to play live again when he was covering himself in baby oil and poncing around in the rain with Patricia.





Edit; And what is wrong with twenty year old t shirts my friend ?

IIRC Eldritch never wanted to go back on the road with the Visioin Thing material, he was forced into it by the record company after the recording went massively over-budget and over-schedule.

mh wrote: On the other hand, there is Joy Division/New Order to consider. (And Martin Gore does sing a lot of DM tracks too.... - hell, Doug Yule even sang Candy Says!)

ok, but it is not the same situation (changed band name, suicide and everything)...and it would be very interesting to know what would curtis actually think about new order

Wow playboy thank you so much! Really, this is no irony or sarcasm, I really honestly want to thank you for making me realise something which is a great step forward into my personal inner happiness. The last time I felt so happy and free was when I realised that there is no need for a new album. Now I feel similar. Maybe it has been growing in me for some time anyway, and your question about how exactly the setlists change was just the last straw, but anyway - thank you.
The thing is, I now officially cannot be bothered anymore with trying to prove my stance. There's just no point, it's a mere waste of my energy and time. It brings me nothing but unnecessary stress and pointless thinking about issues which are not meant to be solved. This is it, I've had enough, really. Thank you.

Being645 wrote:

playboy wrote: Somebody is obviously thinking the same. Somone nicked my sentence "Andrew keeps telling that he doesn´t like to look back, doesn´t want to the gigs to be a nostalgia trip, trying to re-invent the band.
Still, playing the old songs" and posted it in Chris Catalysts formspring.

I wonder if I ever get to know who.....

... well surely not me. I wouldn't know anything so very interesting to ask.
But I've looked it up now ... and hey, why didn't you post Chris' answer:

Chris wrote: We've brought new/different songs into the set every year. If you don't like it, don't buy a ticket. It's quite simple.

... but then you'd miss the best of it ... ...

well, the answer was not nicked, and that was the topic. Besides, what else can he answer as he is a member of the band, anyway?

playboy wrote:

Being645 wrote:

playboy wrote: Somebody is obviously thinking the same. Somone nicked my sentence "Andrew keeps telling that he doesn´t like to look back, doesn´t want to the gigs to be a nostalgia trip, trying to re-invent the band.
Still, playing the old songs" and posted it in Chris Catalysts formspring.

I wonder if I ever get to know who.....

... well surely not me. I wouldn't know anything so very interesting to ask.
But I've looked it up now ... and hey, why didn't you post Chris' answer:

Chris wrote: We've brought new/different songs into the set every year. If you don't like it, don't buy a ticket. It's quite simple.

... but then you'd miss the best of it ... ...

well, the answer was not nicked, and that was the topic. Besides, what else can he answer as he is a member of the band, anyway?

he (Chris) is not telling lies this year we've got 3 new cover songs (john, gift, pipe) and 3 refreshed golden oldies (kiss, more, hard place).
so 6 new/different songs at one year which is not over yet!
you need more? oh, you have more already

markfiend wrote:IIRC Eldritch never wanted to go back on the road with the Visioin Thing material, he was forced into it by the record company after the recording went massively over-budget and over-schedule.

Isn't that what caused the spat between them? After that they wouldn't spend any money promoting it, and Eldritch blamed that for the album not doing as well as he thought it should?

"We've brought new/different songs into the set every year. If you don't like it, don't buy a ticket. It's quite simple."

No you don't, and no I won't.

I've no issue with a band doing a "greatest hits" tour to pay the rent, but it's courtesy to paying customers to at least put on a show for them. Not go through the motions for years and then get indignant when called out on it because since you've done two new songs inbetween.

Chris may be a genuinely nice bloke but he also seems to be the band's official spin doctor.

I didnt get to see them this year but..

To argue that they have a whole new set-list with three "refreshed goled oldies" and "three new cover songs" seems to be rather stretching the point - a politicians statement if you will like "the Euro has been more robust".

Especially when the covers of "Pipeline" and "John I'm Only Dancing" from the boots that I've heard are rather pathetic

They are basically just a Greatest Hits Band going through the motions with less enthusiasm for the task than "Steps".

playboy wrote:

Being645 wrote: The best and most essential are, however, The Sisters' gigs ... ...

And even if not the best, it is the only thing, if we want to talk about the present and future sisters.

... I really don't know why you have to be such a pessimist ...

DeWinter wrote:

markfiend wrote:IIRC Eldritch never wanted to go back on the road with the Visioin Thing material, he was forced into it by the record company after the recording went massively over-budget and over-schedule.

Isn't that what caused the spat between them? After that they wouldn't spend any money promoting it, and Eldritch blamed that for the album not doing as well as he thought it should?

I'm pleased to note, DeWinter, you've - for once, I guess - managed to put a question mark behind your speculations ... ...

DeWinter wrote:

Chris wrote:"We've brought new/different songs into the set every year. If you don't like it, don't buy a ticket. It's quite simple."

No you don't, and no I won't.

I've no issue with a band doing a "greatest hits" tour to pay the rent, but it's courtesy to paying customers to at least put on a show for them. Not go through the motions for years and then get indignant when called out on it because since you've done two new songs inbetween.

Oh, what did I write before ...

Seems already now you've slightly lost touch with reality, again ... who, the hell, did ever get indignant ... and who called whom when out on their practices??? ... ...

Sorry, but from my view you seem to mix up a few things - and people. But ok, stuff like this can happen to everybody at times, so let me help you out:

I am not Andrew Eldritch (and hell, I wouldn't want to be) ... ... and you are not the God Judge Overlord in charge ... so, lean back ... ... relax ...

and see: there is no nightmare-dragons to counteract, and it won't make the world a better place, if go on wasting your energies on things as ridiculous
as what songs some band have in their setlist and when they made their last record ... and anyway, I'm sure you can find other, more relevant causes for
your angry resistance than those impertinently audatious bastards ... and other bands to foster your desire to name and blame the underachieving ...
How about m*****n? I've heard, they are always looking for a dedicated following to support their We Are The Real Ones Thingy ... ...

stufarq wrote:Chris may be a genuinely nice bloke but he also seems to be the band's official spin doctor.

... sounds as if it's already like having a bad name to stick up for The Sisters ...

But what do I say, that's been the case since 1986 at the latest ... or even before 1984, and before 1983,
and also before that ... and surely before that again as well ... so one might rather wonder, whether it's ever been different at all ...

Well, that becomes boring, very, very, very boring. On the other hand ...
being so very much accused of bad boy habits renders Eldritch quite attractive ... ...

Being645 wrote: I'm pleased to note, DeWinter, you've - for once, I guess - managed to put a question mark behind your speculations ... ...

I can be wrong. I frequently am, as it happens. But I generally don't open my yap unless I'm pretty sure of my ground.

Being645 wrote: Seems already now you've slightly lost touch with reality, again ... who, the hell, did ever get indignant ... and who called whom when out on their practices??? ... ...

Sorry, but from my view you seem to mix up a few things - and people. But ok, stuff like this can happen to everybody at times, so let me help you out:

I am not Andrew Eldritch (and hell, I wouldn't want to be) ... ... and you are not the God Judge Overlord in charge ... so, lean back ... ... relax ...

and see: there is no nightmare-dragons to counteract, and it won't make the world a better place, if go on wasting your energies on things as ridiculous
as what songs some band have in their setlist and when they made their last record ... and anyway, I'm sure you can find other, more relevant causes for
your angry resistance than those impertinently audatious bastards ... and other bands to foster your desire to name and blame the underachieving ...
How about m*****n? I've heard, they are always looking for a dedicated following to support their We Are The Real Ones Thingy ... ..

Who ever said I didn't like The m*****n? Perish the thought, they did some good tunes, and the best stuff TSOM did was with That Guitarist involved. They're great fun live, and Wayne at least comes across as fan-friendly. Far more worthy of my increasingly sparce coin of the realm to witness.
I'm not angry at Eldritch in the slightest, he owes me nothing, nor I him. But I find going through the motions (badly) and charging people a fair amount to watch you do it just because they remember how good you used to be is a bit cynical at best. If you're going to be a pub band, charge them fifteen quid and at least busk whilst the gig-goers queue up at the carvery or chuck in a drinks offer or something. And don't whine your head off about "Eew, there are GOTHS here!!" when you're playing the Wave Gottik Treffen festival. It just makes you look like a twit. All fair commentary I think.

As a mildly diverting sidenote, last time I went to any place remotely "gothy" was about ten years ago, "Slimelight" in London. Victoriana with a dash of fetish and the TSOM are not even yesterdays news. BDSM and Industrial seems to be what goth was then. I was politely informed (by a Scot old enough to know better than bleached hair and eyeliner ), that TSOM are "trad-goth" and they play them when they're having a retro night.[/quote]

The Sisters are a strange thing. Any other band of their vintage would make the effort to at least pretend they're a real, active act by releasing a (probably sketchy) rekkid no one would really listen to and be a New Wave Rolling Stones, touring forever on forever ago.

Strangely, they are my fave-o-rite band, and will continue being so. Something about those songs and the delivery of said just totally does it for me.

As much as I would really like to hear what's essentially "the new record" properly studio-ized, they seem a fine Sisters cover band, as it were. A band that wasn't much of a live act to begin with. Yeah, the diehards for the early early pre-FALAA stuff, or even that era... There's a huge disconnect there. It seems almost bizarre to me, having been a child then, and the band being intermittently occasionally active as a band since...

TSOM to me isn't a band I saw in a pub in '83 (how old was I then? Certainly not legal drinking age!), and y'know, they probably were awesome. I don't doubt or deny that. But to me it's a name for stuff Mr. Taylor wrote. I like his songs as much as I like Mr. Waits or Mr. Cave or Ms. Difranco or...

Shrug.

DeWinter wrote: And don't whine your head off about "Eew, there are GOTHS here!!" when you're playing the Wave Gottik Treffen festival. It just makes you look like a twit.

But on another point I don't buy into your "dwindling fanbase" theory which would have the band struggling to fill a venue at WGW within a couple of years, never mind WGT. For every fan who's given up going to the gigs, frustrated by the pace of change, there are still new fans coming on board, whether enticed by the back catalogue or the live shows. Gigs are still selling out, venue sizes are remaining static, and all this without the old "playing an old album in its entirety" stunt many bands are reduced to, or the even more desperate "these are our last shows ever" (until the next time) ploy. The band is still active, and there are dates lined up until next summer - perhaps we should go against stereotype and be a little less miserable ??