Heartland

markfiend wrote:I think I understand where Sabine is coming from, yes Wayne is part of the Sisters' history, but he was in the band for less than three years out of what is now a 30+ year history.

On the other hand, Andrew/Wayne/Gary/Craig is seen by many fans as the "definitive" Sisters line-up, a line-up which produced maybe 30% of the band's official output to date.

For better or worse, Wayne is a big part of what attracted many of us to the band in the first place.

Still a gold-selling album. And, for better or worse, I think it´s fair to say that without Wayne there would be no Sisters today.
For the "definitive" line-up, I think it is equally fair to say that they all contributed to what made the Sisters so popular 20 years after their last record.
However it is the line-up with Wayne that made up many of the myths, and it is Wayne and not Benn that is discussed most. Without doubt, the line-up that made Sisters big. To be honest, Benn didn´t do that much, his imput was minimal. He was a bloke playing the guitar. Like Tim Bricheno. Like Chris Starling. He just happened to be the first thay had.

markfiend wrote:IIRC Eldritch never wanted to go back on the road with the Visioin Thing material, he was forced into it by the record company after the recording went massively over-budget and over-schedule.

The tour was planned at the time they were recording. Andweras Bruhn was the "musical leader" and started working on the tour even before the line-up was completed.
Andreas: "During the vocal takes, I prepared for the tour: I had to program all the old songs into the Doktor, and I had to write out the music sheets of all the instruments. Unfortunately Tim and Tony couldn’t read music sheets. Eventually the nine months were behind us and we did not know where the time went. "

playboy wrote: I think it´s fair to say that without Wayne there would be no Sisters today.

Agreed

playboy wrote:

markfiend wrote:IIRC Eldritch never wanted to go back on the road with the Visioin Thing material, he was forced into it by the record company after the recording went massively over-budget and over-schedule.

The tour was planned at the time they were recording. Andweras Bruhn was the "musical leader" and started working on the tour even before the line-up was completed.
Andreas: "During the vocal takes, I prepared for the tour: I had to program all the old songs into the Doktor, and I had to write out the music sheets of all the instruments. Unfortunately Tim and Tony couldn’t read music sheets. Eventually the nine months were behind us and we did not know where the time went. "

Oh, well, I stand corrected.

I think it was from a Tony James interview that I got the idea for what I wrote there, I'm not sure though now.

panzerfaust wrote:just wanted to say i have a huge respect for playboy and im really glad he joined the forum and i enjoy all those small pieces of information he throws in every now and then. big up man! you repeatedly made my day.

Well, basically, I'd subscribe to that, but I don't think it makes my day to be five times a day made
aware of how s**t the Sisters have become in anyone's opinion for whatever (pretended) reason.

panzerfaust wrote: on the other hand im becoming slightly concerned with Sabine's (Being645) tendency towards a) total disrespect of mishun and wayne and b) blindfold apologetics of recent state of TSOM and Eldritch in general.

no offense meant here, Sabine, its just getting too much sometimes.

No worries, panzerfaust. I don't like it myself.
And yes, I really do have a good degree of disrespect for m*****n and Wayne ... (apart from his clearly great guitar skills) ...

BUT as long as people go on giving blindfold reasons why Sisters without Wayne are no Sisters at all, and how s**t they have always
been before he came and after that guy left, or present us with total disrespect towards Andrew and The Sisters as they are nowadays ...

I WILL COUNTERACT!!! ...... ...


Of course, I do understand that FALAA is for many the one and only real Sisters album, and of course, I think it is a great album and I love it, dearly.
Also I do, of course, respect those who think that this was the end of The Sisters.

But to me, Floodland and Vision Thing are just as great and even better. Also Gift and SSV. And the fact, that The Sisteres survived for such a long time, without the support of a record company, with all the great gigs they are still playing, and with all that mud steadily emptied over them until today, and with everything else ... there is NO band like this for me, and never will be. The Sisters are unique. m*****n are just another goth band (which, IMHO, is exactly what they always wanted to be), and when it comes to this direction, I'd clearly prefer Ghost Dance or Anne-Marie or The March Violets or plenty other bands not so closely related to The Sisters. Thanks.



@ playboy - a book about The Sisters ... all I can imagine is nothing but a compilation of the standard myths and lies bolstered by further repetitions of what has all long been said and slandered ... and of course, that book would end with WAKE, I guess ... so no thanks, not for me. Anyway, unlike Ian Curtis and Joy Division, a story that ended around thirty years ago, Andrew Eldritch is still alive and The Sisters do still exist, however disturbing this might seem to those who just won't get what they will out of this person ...

Nonetheless, all the pieces of unbiased and factual information you're giving us here, are really an addition and very welcome in kind.

Just please, stop ranting about Andrew and The Sisters of Mercy. You can't force anything out of them, and surely not by destroying
their social standing with daily ongoing complaints and allegations. Thank you very much. It is right - YOUR Sisters ARE GONE.
And you won't get them back.

playboy wrote: I think it´s fair to say that without Wayne there would be no Sisters today.
.... To be honest, Benn didn´t do that much, his imput was minimal. He was a bloke playing the guitar.

Leaving aside the rather outlandish claim at the start of the mini-quote above, I find it mildly ironic that those who are first to get upset at a bit of light-hearted Wayne slagging are only too happy to have a go at Ben Gunn. Ben played a key role in the "golden run" of singles and in the live shows of 82/83, fleshing out the band's sound, and IIRC also acting as Nurse to the Doktor at live shows of that era. He was younger than the others and stylistically a little, erm, different, but part of what was very definitely a band (rather than a personal project) at that stage.

James Blast wrote:Mr.E's a khunt, that's all

well, E's certainly called Wayne that to a friend of mine.

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:

playboy wrote: I think it´s fair to say that without Wayne there would be no Sisters today.
.... To be honest, Benn didn´t do that much, his imput was minimal. He was a bloke playing the guitar.

Leaving aside the rather outlandish claim at the start of the mini-quote above, I find it mildly ironic that those who are first to get upset at a bit of light-hearted Wayne slagging are only too happy to have a go at Ben Gunn. Ben played a key role in the "golden run" of singles and in the live shows of 82/83, fleshing out the band's sound, and IIRC also acting as Nurse to the Doktor at live shows of that era. He was younger than the others and stylistically a little, erm, different, but part of what was very definitely a band (rather than a personal project) at that stage.

Personally, I like Gunn/Marx records better than Marx/Hussey records (generally and for the most part). That's not to slag Hussbag as a performer, but simply to say that I always thought he was a little too polished for what was, in essence, a punk rock band. An extremely ambitious one, yes. But a punk rock band nonetheless. FALAA is a fine record, etc., etc., etc. You all know the usual disclaimers. I won't repeat them. I'll just say--again--that Mr. Ben Gunn was the knees of a bee. Additionally, of past members who I'd like to see perform with the band again, it's chiefly just Gunn and Marx. And Starling.

sultan2075 wrote:

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:

playboy wrote: I think it´s fair to say that without Wayne there would be no Sisters today.
.... To be honest, Benn didn´t do that much, his imput was minimal. He was a bloke playing the guitar.

Leaving aside the rather outlandish claim at the start of the mini-quote above, I find it mildly ironic that those who are first to get upset at a bit of light-hearted Wayne slagging are only too happy to have a go at Ben Gunn. Ben played a key role in the "golden run" of singles and in the live shows of 82/83, fleshing out the band's sound, and IIRC also acting as Nurse to the Doktor at live shows of that era. He was younger than the others and stylistically a little, erm, different, but part of what was very definitely a band (rather than a personal project) at that stage.

Personally, I like Gunn/Marx records better than Marx/Hussey records (generally and for the most part). That's not to slag Hussbag as a performer, but simply to say that I always thought he was a little too polished for what was, in essence, a punk rock band. An extremely ambitious one, yes. But a punk rock band nonetheless. FALAA is a fine record, etc., etc., etc. You all know the usual disclaimers. I won't repeat them. I'll just say--again--that Mr. Ben Gunn was the knees of a bee. Additionally, of past members who I'd like to see perform with the band again, it's chiefly just Gunn and Marx. And Starling.

yeah, and he's got correction glasses, not cheap sunglasses, like East Bay Ray from dk or someone. how cool is that in punk band, huh?

Being645 wrote:

panzerfaust wrote:just wanted to say i have a huge respect for playboy and im really glad he joined the forum and i enjoy all those small pieces of information he throws in every now and then. big up man! you repeatedly made my day.

Well, basically, I'd subscribe to that, but I don't think it makes my day to be five times a day made
aware of how s**t the Sisters have become in anyone's opinion for whatever (pretended) reason.

panzerfaust wrote: on the other hand im becoming slightly concerned with Sabine's (Being645) tendency towards a) total disrespect of mishun and wayne and b) blindfold apologetics of recent state of TSOM and Eldritch in general.

no offense meant here, Sabine, its just getting too much sometimes.

No worries, panzerfaust. I don't like it myself.
And yes, I really do have a good degree of disrespect for m*****n and Wayne ... (apart from his clearly great guitar skills) ...

BUT as long as people go on giving blindfold reasons why Sisters without Wayne are no Sisters at all, and how s**t they have always
been before he came and after that guy left, or present us with total disrespect towards Andrew and The Sisters as they are nowadays ...

I WILL COUNTERACT!!! ...... ...


Of course, I do understand that FALAA is for many the one and only real Sisters album, and of course, I think it is a great album and I love it, dearly.
Also I do, of course, respect those who think that this was the end of The Sisters.

But to me, Floodland and Vision Thing are just as great and even better. Also Gift and SSV. And the fact, that The Sisteres survived for such a long time, without the support of a record company, with all the great gigs they are still playing, and with all that mud steadily emptied over them until today, and with everything else ... there is NO band like this for me, and never will be. The Sisters are unique. m*****n are just another goth band (which, IMHO, is exactly what they always wanted to be), and when it comes to this direction, I'd clearly prefer Ghost Dance or Anne-Marie or The March Violets or plenty other bands not so closely related to The Sisters. Thanks.



@ playboy - a book about The Sisters ... all I can imagine is nothing but a compilation of the standard myths and lies bolstered by further repetitions of what has all long been said and slandered ... and of course, that book would end with WAKE, I guess ... so no thanks, not for me. Anyway, unlike Ian Curtis and Joy Division, a story that ended around thirty years ago, Andrew Eldritch is still alive and The Sisters do still exist, however disturbing this might seem to those who just won't get what they will out of this person ...

Nonetheless, all the pieces of unbiased and factual information you're giving us here, are really an addition and very welcome in kind.

Just please, stop ranting about Andrew and The Sisters of Mercy. You can't force anything out of them, and surely not by destroying
their social standing with daily ongoing complaints and allegations. Thank you very much. It is right - YOUR Sisters ARE GONE.
And you won't get them back.

"I don't think it makes my day to be five times a day made
aware of how s**t the Sisters have become in anyone's opinion for whatever (pretended) reason."
I am sorry if it doesn´t make your day to hear other peoples opinions. It might not make my day either to hear five times a day how good they are today. Anyway, the reason is not pretended, if you have not figured it out yet i WANT to think that they are good, hell, they are my favouriteband all time, don´t you think it suck to feel that they are doing the sam concert every year with, as I said, at least 13 songs that is played EVERY year.
And to end this, I only write that I don´t like what they have become after someone else have wrote that they are as good as ever. It is not supposed to be a one way discussion, is it?

playboy wrote:And to end this, I only write that I don´t like what they have become after someone else have wrote that they are as good as ever. It is not supposed to be a one way discussion, is it?

worse - better. times are different and they are different. differnet is the air and different is the water. even mcdonalds don't taste the same like in 1959

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:

playboy wrote: I think it´s fair to say that without Wayne there would be no Sisters today.
.... To be honest, Benn didn´t do that much, his imput was minimal. He was a bloke playing the guitar.

Leaving aside the rather outlandish claim at the start of the mini-quote above, I find it mildly ironic that those who are first to get upset at a bit of light-hearted Wayne slagging are only too happy to have a go at Ben Gunn. Ben played a key role in the "golden run" of singles and in the live shows of 82/83, fleshing out the band's sound, and IIRC also acting as Nurse to the Doktor at live shows of that era. He was younger than the others and stylistically a little, erm, different, but part of what was very definitely a band (rather than a personal project) at that stage.

You got me wrong, my friend. I like Ben Gunn. He was the guitarist on the first record I hear with them and felt in love with The Sisters at once. I am not having a go at Ben.
But if you are old enough to remember what was written about the band you might know that there are more histories and articles written about Wayne. When Ben was in the band the focus was on Andrew and/or the band. All that changed when Wayne entered. He was a different character and it was much the personal stories that build up the magic and myth that surrounded the band after they broke up. By that time no-one knew that Sisters would come back. They were often in the press and it all was about Andrew/Wayne and what happened. Things took of more when Gift was releases and when Mish was born.
All this was building up the cultstatus that still is strong. Both Mish and Sisters are touring now.

All members that come and go in a band are of course important in the whole, but some must stay and some must go in order to take the band further. Ben did not want success and left before the big break and have stayed anonymous since. The Sisters are still alive and well though.

lachert wrote:

playboy wrote:And to end this, I only write that I don´t like what they have become after someone else have wrote that they are as good as ever. It is not supposed to be a one way discussion, is it?

worse - better. times are different and they are different. differnet is the air and different is the water. even mcdonalds don't taste the same like in 1959

True. But when McDonalds took back their older burger (cannot rememner the name, how it tasted in the beginning) for a period this summer, the costumers whish they still tasted the same as in 1959.

Ain't going to get into the who was better when, where and how argument. But I think we can all agree that we'd all rather watch the Sisters in whatever incarnation than Snow Patrol.

abridged wrote:Ain't going to get into the who was better when, where and how argument. But I think we can all agree that we'd all rather watch the Sisters in whatever incarnation than Snow Patrol.

YES!

playboy wrote:"I don't think it makes my day to be five times a day made
aware of how s**t the Sisters have become in anyone's opinion for whatever (pretended) reason."
I am sorry if it doesn´t make your day to hear other peoples opinions. It might not make my day either to hear five times a day how good they are today. Anyway, the reason is not pretended, if you have not figured it out yet i WANT to think that they are good, hell, they are my favouriteband all time, don´t you think it suck to feel that they are doing the sam concert every year with, as I said, at least 13 songs that is played EVERY year.
And to end this, I only write that I don´t like what they have become after someone else have wrote that they are as good as ever. It is not supposed to be a one way discussion, is it?

So let's just stop going back and fro on this issue ...

Btw, yeah ... hihi, I could hear them play whatever they please and however often in a row without getting bored at the least ...

For me it's still the same at each concert ... I get sad and start missing them, even while they are still there and playing ... ...

well, at least the aftermath has shortened with time - and since I joined this lovely forum ... ...

Being645 wrote:

playboy wrote:"I don't think it makes my day to be five times a day made
aware of how s**t the Sisters have become in anyone's opinion for whatever (pretended) reason."
I am sorry if it doesn´t make your day to hear other peoples opinions. It might not make my day either to hear five times a day how good they are today. Anyway, the reason is not pretended, if you have not figured it out yet i WANT to think that they are good, hell, they are my favouriteband all time, don´t you think it suck to feel that they are doing the sam concert every year with, as I said, at least 13 songs that is played EVERY year.
And to end this, I only write that I don´t like what they have become after someone else have wrote that they are as good as ever. It is not supposed to be a one way discussion, is it?

So let's just stop going back and fro on this issue ...

Btw, yeah ... hihi, I could hear them play whatever they please and however often in a row without getting bored at the least ...

For me it's still the same at each concert ... I get sad and start missing them, even while they are still there and playing ... ...

well, at least the aftermath has shortened with time - and since I joined this lovely forum ... ...

I am truly glad that you enjoy them so much. Really. I wish that I could share your enthusiasm. However, for me, the same at each concert is not enough to me, as it is not that I am used to. In the past it was a feeling of "should be soooo exciting to hear them, see what new surprises that will hit us". I still remember the gig at Brixton Academy 1993. Though it was loooong ago, I still remember the vibe in the hall, and the thrill when I first heard On The Wire live. And the feeling in the stomache of Doktor Avalanche. Can still hear him but not feeling the bassdrums anymore.
If i had not seen them back then I may have felt different.
You can talk about new times, new sound, new members and so on, but the fact that each tour is more or less simular, and that the sound is not as heavy, clear and loud as it was remains.

I also get sad and miss them even while they are up on the stage and I am in the audience. But it is because that I want to be surprised at least once, a concert without Crash And Burn, Anaconda, Alice, the second half of the extended Temple Of Love, Ribbons, Train/Detonation Boulevard, Dominion, half of Lucretia, Flood II, This Corrosion, Vision Thing, Something Fast, Arms, First And Last Always, Summer.
I just mentioned 16 songs. The mentioned songs were played the last time I saw them. Two years ago. How many of these 16 songs do you think they will NOT play when I see them two weeks from now?
My guess is one. But probably zero......

playboy wrote: You can talk about new times, new sound, new members and so on, but the fact that each tour is more or less simular, and that the sound is not as heavy, clear and loud as it was remains.

word.

panzerfaust wrote:

playboy wrote: You can talk about new times, new sound, new members and so on, but the fact that each tour is more or less simular, and that the sound is not as heavy, clear and loud as it was remains.

word.

and you talk about the past & what used to get you excited when it came to going to the past gigs. a bit of nostalgia is never a bad thing but we don't live in the past anymore. the new times are what we are experiencing & those of us still travelling the globe to catch them live on stage is still the thrill. and in my experience i haven't been to a bad gig yet. *lucky me.
we love them for what they are now. you don't have to but seriously bringing up the past & dissecting motivies or what happened then, shouldn't that just be let in the past? people change or don't but life still carries on with what the future brings!

and so what if it's the same thing over & over again some of us still get the thrill every time we see them & i hope that will stay the same forever.

MadameButterfly wrote:

panzerfaust wrote:

playboy wrote: You can talk about new times, new sound, new members and so on, but the fact that each tour is more or less simular, and that the sound is not as heavy, clear and loud as it was remains.

word.

and you talk about the past & what used to get you excited when it came to going to the past gigs. a bit of nostalgia is never a bad thing but we don't live in the past anymore. the new times are what we are experiencing & those of us still travelling the globe to catch them live on stage is still the thrill. and in my experience i haven't been to a bad gig yet. *lucky me.
we love them for what they are now. you don't have to but seriously bringing up the past & dissecting motivies or what happened then, shouldn't that just be let in the past? people change or don't but life still carries on with what the future brings!

and so what if it's the same thing over & over again some of us still get the thrill every time we see them & i hope that will stay the same forever.

I am happy for you.
I don´t want to live in the past, I am not in it for nostalgia. I want to see good fresh updated concert. It should sound like The Sisters Of Mercy 2011, but it could as well be The Sisters Of Mercy 2006.....
Not edgy enough for me.

So to me, and that is the problem, honestly, it seems that the Sisters are living in the past. For them, things don´t change, they keep, as you said, doing the same thing over and over.

I´d like to know what they COULD have sounded like, if only they weren´t playing it safe, if they still have the hunger and desire.
But it will not happen this year I´m afraid, the upcoming tour will most likely be identical to the previous ones. Again.

As long as three of them are involved with other bands (some even a couple of bands), that tours and recording and so on, the Sisters will have little time to work hard to progress.

Andrew will not fall on the wire, cause he had climbed down to safety.

playboy wrote: I am happy for you.
I don´t want to live in the past, I am not in it for nostalgia. I want to see good fresh updated concert. It should sound like The Sisters Of Mercy 2011, but it could as well be The Sisters Of Mercy 2006.....
Not edgy enough for me.

So to me, and that is the problem, honestly, it seems that the Sisters are living in the past. For them, things don´t change, they keep, as you said, doing the same thing over and over.

I´d like to know what they COULD have sounded like, if only they weren´t playing it safe, if they still have the hunger and desire.
But it will not happen this year I´m afraid, the upcoming tour will most likely be identical to the previous ones. Again.

As long as three of them are involved with other bands (some even a couple of bands), that tours and recording and so on, the Sisters will have little time to work hard to progress.

Andrew will not fall on the wire, cause he had climbed down to safety.

thank you i'm happy for me too. should sound like... well in my opion they do sound edgy enough. see, i'm humbled enough to know that they don't care what we think they should sound like they just do whatever they like. the last gigs covering certain numbers, if you would, giving their own edge to something different is what is so unique. it's definately not the same thing over & over, okay sometimes it's a bit of the same, but that's the core to The Sisters. they can do anything but we still have a ball receiving it. unless you are someone that just goes to stand with arms folded and only think critically. what they could sound like? seriously? well anything they want to really if it tickles von's interest. that's something i think is a bonus to who they are now. each of the three in different bands with different sounds. if they wanted to they could throw it all together in a pot & mix & twirl it around & then? more critic about the new sound? remember some of us enjoy the sound now & many hope for a little surprise here & there, but we still go for the ongoing madness of this unique band. von is only the singer & heart, body & soul of the Sisters. that will never change. and he is lazy. so let it be & just enjoy. god if he ever does bring out something new i think the heartattacks on HL will rise so let it not happen.

MadameButterfly wrote:

playboy wrote: I am happy for you.
I don´t want to live in the past, I am not in it for nostalgia. I want to see good fresh updated concert. It should sound like The Sisters Of Mercy 2011, but it could as well be The Sisters Of Mercy 2006.....
Not edgy enough for me.

So to me, and that is the problem, honestly, it seems that the Sisters are living in the past. For them, things don´t change, they keep, as you said, doing the same thing over and over.

I´d like to know what they COULD have sounded like, if only they weren´t playing it safe, if they still have the hunger and desire.
But it will not happen this year I´m afraid, the upcoming tour will most likely be identical to the previous ones. Again.

As long as three of them are involved with other bands (some even a couple of bands), that tours and recording and so on, the Sisters will have little time to work hard to progress.

Andrew will not fall on the wire, cause he had climbed down to safety.

thank you i'm happy for me too. should sound like... well in my opion they do sound edgy enough. see, i'm humbled enough to know that they don't care what we think they should sound like they just do whatever they like. the last gigs covering certain numbers, if you would, giving their own edge to something different is what is so unique. it's definately not the same thing over & over, okay sometimes it's a bit of the same, but that's the core to The Sisters. they can do anything but we still have a ball receiving it. unless you are someone that just goes to stand with arms folded and only think critically. what they could sound like? seriously? well anything they want to really if it tickles von's interest. that's something i think is a bonus to who they are now. each of the three in different bands with different sounds. if they wanted to they could throw it all together in a pot & mix & twirl it around & then? more critic about the new sound? remember some of us enjoy the sound now & many hope for a little surprise here & there, but we still go for the ongoing madness of this unique band. von is only the singer & heart, body & soul of the Sisters. that will never change. and he is lazy. so let it be & just enjoy. god if he ever does bring out something new i think the heartattacks on HL will rise so let it not happen.

Some settle for less. I don´t.

playboy wrote:

stufarq wrote:Isn't this whole thread starting to get a bit over-serious and personal? Perhaps it's time to close it.

Markfiend made it a little too personal.

It was getting personal long before that.

stufarq wrote:

playboy wrote:

stufarq wrote:Isn't this whole thread starting to get a bit over-serious and personal? Perhaps it's time to close it.

Markfiend made it a little too personal.

It was getting personal long before that.

... that much is true. And as you've seen - I'm definitely able to assimilate ... ,,, ...

every time i see the sisters these days i also still expect something unexpected, something brutal, something special, or a sheer vocal explosion as it used to be. it happens only in small portions, and physics are not to be denied. but it happens.

saw the m*****n a week ago, it was fantastic, but was it nostalgia? no, it was that good that nostalgia simply was not worth a thought. that's how it should be.

i really would love to see andrew and wayne performing together again, but andrew seems to be too far away from acting rational these days so that it won't happen, which is a pity. we all know what a big bang this would be, and what echo it would cause even in the media - and how inspiring this could be to both of them. both are in the center of their own universe, but both of them together are in the center of an even bigger universe, kept in balance only by both these poles, tripping the light fantastic.

looking forward to the 23rd