Heartland

I haven't bought or listened to it but aren't Cadiz kind of beholden to release what they've been given without changing it? They shouldn't have to check and compare it if it's coming from the horses mouth. Do you think he listened to it to check the quality?

markfiend wrote: ↑17 Jan 2023, 14:13

eastmidswhizzkid wrote: ↑17 Jan 2023, 02:24 Ive just listened to this (albeit the yootoob rips) and its a fuckking disgrace really. For starters there are no 'extras'. We knew from the start that there wouldnt be much available in that bracket (because we -collectively at least- are Sisters officianado's extraordinnaire) but not even the 7" versions of Giving Ground! However lets forget the extras as i would argue that you dont even get "Gift"! Its a rough edit. Colours doesnt just fail to fade out it has a "tape's still running" noise on the end and Rain From Heaven is an abomination! I was stupidly tempted to buy this but Cadiz shouldnt be financially rewarded for lying to us and then making a pig's ear of it. f**k them and the 3-legged horse they rode in on.

I think it's more likely to be Eldritch's fault. Cadiz can only work from the tapes they're given.

maybe they shouldnt have promised more than they knew they could deliver? maybe whoever the musical genius was that 'remastered' the album could have faded-out the end of the tracks etc. i'm sure eldritch isnt easy to work with but this is shoddy.

mh wrote: ↑17 Jan 2023, 14:29
It feels churlish to complain. On one hand it's great that this album is available again, but it's a shame it's not putting it's best foot forward, and a crying shame that some basic mistakes were made.

its great that people who couldnt buy a copy 36/7 years ago get to buy it now. as i have 2 vinyls, official CD & f**k knows how many .flac, needledropped, ripped CD-rs i shall waste my money on drugs as dog intended.

I have listened to this on Spotify (so Cadiz gets their 2 cents, probably literally):
Let's not be too picky on Cadiz - True, they promised everything and more, but in the end, they tried to to business with Andrew Eldritch and probably got, not what they wanted, but what they could use somehow. Now we don't have Gift as WE probably wanted, but as least we have both LP sides without fade at the end. Isn't that something.

Aside about the whole thing: Whoever told anything else, THIS.IS.NO.TECHNO. If it was Techno, the drums would have been UTZ, UTZ, UTZ, UTZ (repeat ad nauseam). The vocals would be limited to the absolute minimum of one phrase per song - which only works for Jihad, but then see drums. This would barely qualify for Electronic Body Music, it's plainly just (erm) Goth with synths.

Well said by Kutan. Only thing is that it is neither G**h with synths. I really don't know how to describe it in genre tags, but G**h is not, at least not all of it.

If the utter darkness of Colours, Giving Ground and Rain From Heaven isn't Goth, what then could it possibly be?

Perfectly good and legitimate question. Would love to hear more comments on this,

I can tell you what it is ... ... it is ... THE SISTERHOOD, immaculate, in manners unheard of before, and in good Sisters tradition ... ...

To be fair Vision Thing and Floodland aren't Goth. So the majority of the Sisters output isn't Goth. Maybe was right all along. They aren't a Goth group!

Kutan wrote: ↑17 Jan 2023, 23:48 If the utter darkness of Colours, Giving Ground and Rain From Heaven isn't Goth, what then could it possibly be?

If you're a Goth then it's Traditional Music, doh.

abridged wrote: ↑18 Jan 2023, 08:30 To be fair Vision Thing and Floodland aren't Goth. So the majority of the Sisters output isn't Goth. Maybe was right all along. They aren't a Goth group!

What the f are you on about !?

Only 3 categories, or labels, or genres, pick your word, actually exist with regards to music - brilliant, alright, crap. Clearly, if you're really that way inclined, Gift can be categorised as brilliant. Any further sub-divisions are flannel and you should all stop it immediately

edit : the Gift I refer to above is the original, haven't heard this new release so couldn't possibly comment.

eastmidswhizzkid wrote: ↑17 Jan 2023, 02:24 Its a rough edit. Colours doesnt just fail to fade out it has a "tape's still running" noise on the end and Rain From Heaven is an abomination! I was stupidly tempted to buy this but Cadiz shouldnt be financially rewarded for lying to us and then making a pig's ear of it. f**k them and the 3-legged horse they rode in on.

And yet if a bootleg had appeared* of "Gift - rough edit" some people would have been losing their s**t over it!


*More realistic version: "No, it's rare, you can't have it" ... (years pass) ... "No, it's megarare you can't have it!" ... (years pass, you finally get to hear it)... Crushing disappointment. "Is that it??"

Dan wrote: ↑18 Jan 2023, 16:14

And yet if a bootleg had appeared* of "Gift - rough edit" some people would have been losing their s**t over it!

I feel seen.

Kutan wrote: ↑17 Jan 2023, 23:48 If the utter darkness of Colours, Giving Ground and Rain From Heaven isn't Goth, what then could it possibly be?

I find Rain from Heaven quite postive and uplifting myself.

ruffers wrote: ↑18 Jan 2023, 18:03

Kutan wrote: ↑17 Jan 2023, 23:48 If the utter darkness of Colours, Giving Ground and Rain From Heaven isn't Goth, what then could it possibly be?

I find Rain from Heaven quite postive and uplifting myself.

I feel like we need a dedicated thread for "definition of goth, classification of sisters material and related argumentation and trolling".
Clearly lots of scope for engagement.

As time goes on, I find myself admiring Von more and more with regard to the degree to which he doesn't care about the past. It's really admirable.

It is also, of course, highly frustrating when things like this happen. I'd guess he got asked and hassled about this, and basically said 'okay, if you want to. But it's on you. I don't care. Here's what I've got." You can of course also make a kind of ethical argument about selling shoddy goods etc, but I'd guess he'd argue getting something is better than getting nothing, nobody is obliged to buy it/stream it, and maybe he's no artistic interest in going back and reworking old work to clean up missing bits etc.

On a personal level, it takes quite an evolved person to not care what people think of them, and to live an authentic life on their own terms. At some level, I can't help thinking that this is an unavoidable side effect of the personal qualities Von has that have made his work resonate for more than 40 years.

So many other bands have been and gone, led by people who would sell their grannies to have a legacy like the Sisters. And that's almost certainly why they don't have it. It's frustrating when you think of the easy victories and low hanging fruit that have been ignored in the band's career, and when you love the work as a fan and want others to be able to share that passion.

I get that Todashi, but I also got the strong impression that he promised Cadiz more than he actually delivered, which is why they seem to p**d about it. Of course, it could be that he offered them a carefully-chosen form of words that seemed to promise more but didn't actually commit him to it. That would be quite Von.

Who knows? it's a bit perplexing. Presumably he didn't have to do this (to cooperate with re-releasing Gift) so if he was going to do it at all, why not do it well?

For what it's worth, I think it sounds great. It's just the odd cut offs etc that are strange. But it's not a disaster to me at all. I'm kinda surprised it happened at all.

The original flyers from it could be picked up at the band's merch stall back in 2019. It's difficult to believe that the band didn't have some awareness of what was intended back then. I'm inclined to roll with what it looks like on the surface: Cadiz went into it in good faith, Von was difficult to work with, and they ended up salvaging what they could.

mh wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 19:52 The original flyers from it could be picked up at the band's merch stall back in 2019. It's difficult to believe that the band didn't have some awareness of what was intended back then. I'm inclined to roll with what it looks like on the surface: Cadiz went into it in good faith, Von was difficult to work with, and they ended up salvaging what they could.

Yeah, I guess those "raw" tapes was all Von could find after so many years, apart from the final mixes. And Cadiz wanted to present "something special" ... ...

mh wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 19:52 The original flyers from it could be picked up at the band's merch stall back in 2019. It's difficult to believe that the band didn't have some awareness of what was intended back then. I'm inclined to roll with what it looks like on the surface: Cadiz went into it in good faith, Von was difficult to work with, and they ended up salvaging what they could.

As I recall the cards were separate from the band stall. Just laying around on shelves etc.

TBH I don't think Von was in anyway involved in this. I think he merely sanctioned someone using some long since forgotten about reels to potentially being in a few quid in preference to a garage sale. Cadiz probably opened the lockup having bid blind and found mainly unrestorable carp.

Dan wrote: ↑18 Jan 2023, 16:14

eastmidswhizzkid wrote: ↑17 Jan 2023, 02:24 Its a rough edit. Colours doesnt just fail to fade out it has a "tape's still running" noise on the end and Rain From Heaven is an abomination! I was stupidly tempted to buy this but Cadiz shouldnt be financially rewarded for lying to us and then making a pig's ear of it. f**k them and the 3-legged horse they rode in on.

And yet if a bootleg had appeared* of "Gift - rough edit" some people would have been losing their s**t over it!


*More realistic version: "No, it's rare, you can't have it" ... (years pass) ... "No, it's megarare you can't have it!" ... (years pass, you finally get to hear it)... Crushing disappointment. "Is that it??"

true enough.

Finally got the CD. Analysis coming soon. Meanwhile, here are the dynamic range logs of the 2023 vs original CD. At least Cadiz didn't crush it.

foobar2000 1.6.5 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2023-01-21 11:15:00

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: The Sisterhood / Gift [2023, UK, CADIZCD248]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11 -0.20 dB -12.34 dB 8:13 01-Jihad
DR11 -0.20 dB -12.58 dB 8:11 02-Colours
DR11 -0.23 dB -13.00 dB 7:32 03-Giving Ground
DR10 -0.20 dB -11.76 dB 8:16 04-Finland Red, Egypt White
DR11 -0.20 dB -12.32 dB 7:55 05-Rain From Heaven
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 5
Official DR value: DR11

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 922 kbps
Codec: ALAC
================================================================================

foobar2000 1.6.5 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2023-01-15 11:31:04

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: The Sisterhood / Gift [1989, UK, SIS 020-CD]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR13 -0.65 dB -15.35 dB 8:17 01-Jihad
DR12 -0.07 dB -14.96 dB 8:03 02-Colours
DR14 -0.84 dB -16.59 dB 7:31 03-Giving Ground
DR13 -1.58 dB -15.49 dB 8:17 04-Finland Red, Egypt White
DR12 -2.88 dB -17.65 dB 6:44 05-Rain From Heaven
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 5
Official DR value: DR13

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 807 kbps
Codec: ALAC
================================================================================

eastmidswhizzkid wrote: ↑17 Jan 2023, 02:24 Ive just listened to this (albeit the yootoob rips) and its a fuckking disgrace really. For starters there are no 'extras'. We knew from the start that there wouldnt be much available in that bracket (because we -collectively at least- are Sisters officianado's extraordinnaire) but not even the 7" versions of Giving Ground! However lets forget the extras as i would argue that you dont even get "Gift"! Its a rough edit. Colours doesnt just fail to fade out it has a "tape's still running" noise on the end and Rain From Heaven is an abomination! I was stupidly tempted to buy this but Cadiz shouldnt be financially rewarded for lying to us and then making a pig's ear of it. f**k them and the 3-legged horse they rode in on.

Having looked forward to this since the original rumours of a deluxe, extras-laden, autographed edition, and seen those rumours slowly fall away into a shower of s**t, I think the above is enough to convince me to stick with my original CD and LP and give this one a miss.

It's a shame as I'm gagging to buy anything even vaguely resembling a new or interesting take on a Sisters record these days - you have to really f**k it up not to get my money.

I compared the whole thing against the original Merciful Release CD, level matched and lined up in WaveLab.

Jihad and Colours sound pretty good on this CD, maybe better than the original. There seems to be a bit more top end detail and they make the original CD sound slightly dull in comparison.

Giving Ground is a different mix that we've not heard before. It is very close to the finished album mix, but some of the final vocal panning isn't present and there is some excessive delay in places. It sounds like an 'almost there' mix.

Finland Red, Egypt White has a touch too much compression making it sound flat compared to the original CD, which pops in comparison.

Nothing to say about Rain From Heaven.

The two tracks that aren't faded out, Colours and Rain From Heaven, are interesting to hear but they don't contain any new music.

Overall this CD is pretty good. If you don't own Gift on CD then buy this and you'll be okay.