Prostitution thread -- split from "Ipswich Ripper"

[robertzombie]

Well there's plenty of other people that can get along on the minimum wage and McD's is a fiver an hour so that's more than min. wage.

And frankly, the fact that they're drug addicts doesn't make me feel anymore sorry for them.

[nick the stripper]

And frankly, the fact that they're drug addicts doesn't make me feel anymore sorry for them.

Dude, people make mistakes. These five girls made a mistake, and they had to live with it day in and day out, prostituting themselves for money and searching for a fix every several hours to stave off excruciating withdrawal pains. And on top of that, instead of showing them love and understanding, you think it's OK to condemn them and say that they deserved what they got?

We shouldn't be condemning people and outcasting them for making a mistake. If we do that, how are they supposed to sort themselves out, get a life and become productive members of society again?

[canon docre]

It's clear that the reason these women were killed is becuase they're prostitutes. If they weren't prostitutes then maybe this wouldn't have happened.
It's not like they had no other choice.

Wrong! The killer has choosen them because they were easy to get. If there wouldnt be any prostitutes existing, he would have choosen someone else who is easy to get, f.ex. female bus drivers of the nightshift, girls who come home after disco etc. It's their profession which makes them more vulnerable, but a full-blown serial killer wouldnt be stopped if he has to search a bit longer for a victim.

re. prostitution. I sense of certain disrespect for prostitutes here. Maybe you're not aware of the fact that prostitutes serve an important social function since the dawn of time. legal or illegal, there was always prostitution and there will be always prostitution.
Imagine all the old/ugly/shy men who'll never find a woman to shag. Or all the hubbies who are into some perversion or other, which won't be fulfilled by their wives. should they run around and rape women instead?
I don't know how many sexual assaults have been averted by the existence of prostitutes and I certainly don't wanna know. We should be all very thankful for that.
I once saw a programm in TV about a supervised flat-sharing community of severely handicapped men. The social worker invited some prostitutes over for Christmas - well, I've never seen happier guys. For some it was the first time they'd ever sex - with 40.

Instead of acknowledging the social service they accomplish they get condemned by hypocrites...

[Izzy HaveMercy]

I just disagree with RobertZombie on this point for a simple reason: who are you to judge these women?

I do not think there is ONE woman on this planet that voluntarily chooses to become a prostitute. Not when she can have a gazillion other jobs.

But when you are a drug addict, or are an illegal immigrant, don't understand the language and the legal system etc... you are a very easy target for people 'trying to help you out'.

Maybe they were lured with the prospect of 'a better life', maybe they promised them to help them keep away from drugs and all...

The beasts that trade in human flesh have a lot of tricks to lure women into their nets.

And when you're in their claws, there is often no way back.

And stating that you feel less bad about prostitutes getting killed, is the same like saying "if they were drug addicts or immigrants or seropositive homosexuals..."

In my case, I would say "Oh, they were only butt-shaking R&B artists that crashed with their plane, so not much harm done... way too many on this planet as it is..."

Now I can THINK this any time, but I will refrain from saying it on a forum. I did that once here and I've learnt my lesson

Otherwise, Robert, you're a top bloke with a good taste and future in music, but I completely disagree with you on this point...

It is soo cliché (and it makes me feel old too) to say, "wait a couple of years and then think again about this", but hey, most clichés are clichés because they are TRUE...

IZ.

[Badlander]

What an excellent post. I haven't contributed to the discussion so far because I think it is a very difficult subject. It's not black or white, and it's human beings we're talking about, fer chrissakes ! It's very hard to have a well-informed, balanced opinion.

Just one point : prostitution is not a profession like any other. Prostitutes are hardly ever mere "sex workers", who choose to embrace that profession freely. That's what pimps want you to believe. And don't be naive : theses fuckers are always just around the corner, even when prostitutes say they aren't. Just listen to what anti-prostitution activists (who are merely caring, informed people, not zealots) have to say : they talk from experience and they know a lot about slavery, humiliation, violence and suffering.

I guess in a perfect world, where there would be no mafia, no slavery, no violence against women, no hunger, etc. we could regard prostitution as just another job. But in the real world prostitutes are almost always victims.

I have a friend who works in a morgue. Last time they found a female human body with no head and no limbs in a suit case. It was probably a prostitute and of course they couldn't id her.
This is just what prostitution is about. And why not ? Who cares when a prostitute is tortured, killed, and her body mutilated ? Odds are she was an illegal immigrant anyway.

It is soo cliché (and it makes me feel old too) to say, "wait a couple of years and then think again about this", but hey, most clichés are clichés because they are TRUE...

Sometimes when you're wrong, you're wrong, no matter how old and / or experienced you are.

[eotunun]

Not to forget the one-man prostitutes, male or female, that even mary bank accounts instead of the persons.
Using sex to gain social advantages is part of the instinctive behaviour of our closest evolutionary relative, the Bonobo, and we are affected by similar instincts.
You can´t deny your roots.

[boudicca]

Imagine all the old/ugly/shy men who'll never find a woman to shag. Or all the hubbies who are into some perversion or other, which won't be fulfilled by their wives. should they run around and rape women instead?
I don't know how many sexual assaults have been averted by the existence of prostitutes and I certainly don't wanna know. We should be all very thankful for that.

Woah woah woah!

I have my opinions on a lot of this (it's somewhere in between you and Rob ), most of which I don't want to air. But I really take issue with any suggestion that rape is just about sex, just a guy who's desperate and can't get a shag.
It is an issue of power and control, and far more beyond that. To suggest it is merely (or even mostly) about the insatiable sex drives of "Men" which, if not fulfilled consensually, will drive them to force themselves on women, is utter bullsh!t.
I realise you may not BE suggesting this of course, Jess... I just felt the need to make that point.

Personally, I think prostitutes have little effect in preventing 99% of rapes. If they do make any greater difference I doubt it's by simply providing sex, rather because they provide someone to control, someone who does not ask to be viewed with respect or indeed as anything more than an object provided she is handed the money (the power) which her client wields.

And I dare say any benefit is cancelled out by the image these women at least attempt to project of wanting to do what they're doing to their client - if they are wincing and tryng to avoid throwing up as some vile f**ker bears down on them they will try and hide it. The guys who go to prostitutes will quite happily go along with their half-hearted play acting, kidding themselves that she just loves pleasing me, that's her raison d'etre. They will get off on that. And I would be very surprised if that doesn't impact on their relations with women in general.

A guy who goes to a prostitute does not give a s**t whether the woman is enjoying herself or not - it is completely irrelevant to him and that is a f**ked up state of affairs. It is not men's nature to not give a damn whether the woman they are with is in ecstasy or feeling physically sick. Knowing she'd rather you got your filthy hands off and is lying looking at a fly crawling across the ceiling would shrink a psychologically healthy man to the size of a chipolata faster than seeing the bird transform into Ann Widdecombe.
I don't hold with the view that men who don't care are just victims of their raging hormones and masculine nature.

[Badlander]

But I really take issue with any suggestion that rape is just about sex, just a guy who's desperate and can't get a shag.
It is an issue of power and control, and far more beyond that. To suggest it is merely (or even mostly) about the insatiable sex drives of "Men" which, if not fulfilled consensually, will drive them to force themselves on women, is utter bullsh!t.
I realise you may not BE suggesting this of course, Jess... I just felt the need to make that point.

I second that motion.

[Izzy HaveMercy]

And just for the record: when a woman is dressed sexy and flirts with a man, this is not a reason to tear off her clothes and shag her.

I've heard some people in my vicinity say that "some women, the way they are dressed and behave, are just YELLING to be assaulted and raped!"

There is only one answer that a woman has to utter and that goes above all other rules and assuptions of us, men:

NO means NO.

But that's another discussion altogether...

IZ.

[robertzombie]

lol, that certainly is a discussion for another day

[canon docre]

@Boudicca. I admit that it was over- simplifying and I never meant to suggest, that unsatisfied men will run around and rape women. I wholeheartedly agree with your point, but, I also wanted to emphasise on the social function of prostitutes for men who simply can't attract "normal" women. For those men it is certainly not about power over somebody, but rather about being with somebody. And there're more of them than you might think.

[Badlander]

How about those women who can't attract "normal" men then ?

[smiscandlon]

How about those women who can't attract "normal" men then ?

I believe that's what chocolate and sex toys are for.

[nick the stripper]

How about those women who can't attract "normal" men then ?

I have a friend who has this theory that they become pseudo-lesbians and have lots of sex with other pseudo-lesbians.

[markfiend]

But I really take issue with any suggestion that rape is just about sex, just a guy who's desperate and can't get a shag.
It is an issue of power and control, and far more beyond that.

I hate to tell you this, but for a lot of men, sex is an issue of power and control...

[Badlander]

How about those women who can't attract "normal" men then ?

I have a friend who has this theory that they become pseudo-lesbians and have lots of sex with other pseudo-lesbians.

What an interesting theory.