Heartland

Don't really have any particular major objection to them, and while they are certainly guilty of taking themselves far too seriously at times and grinding out cringingly "worthy" "rock" "tunes" (i.e. bowel-loosening gurning nonsense), there are far too many other bands that are far far far worse.

It's fun to take the piss out of Wayne a bit, he does set himself up as a bit of an easy target. But you can't deny his playing ability, and he's easily more than capable of writing a damn fine tune when he puts his mind to it (and doesn't try too hard).

Dodgy lyrics to one side (lest they cloud the point), The First Chapter was astonishing, Gods Own Medicine quite patchy (but did contain a handful of tunes that kick total butt with the best of them), and Children was half of a cracker of an LP. Carved in Sand was "nice", you could play it while drinking tea with your aunt. After that I lost interest.

Confession time: I joined t'Mish fan club* in 1987 (about the time First Chapter came out) but I'd lost interest by Carved in Sand / Grains of Sand three years later. They were a cracking live act the four or five times I saw them over that period though.

* I think I've still got my old membership card somewhere; I ought to give you all a laugh and post a scan of my photo off it...

It turned for me when Wayne was pissed on the James Whale show and made a right nob of himself - the bubble just seemed to burst.

Now, now. We've all made asses of ourselves when drunk at some time or another, I'm sure. - just not on live television.

nick the stripper wrote:

It turned for me when Wayne was pissed on the James Whale show and made a right nob of himself - the bubble just seemed to burst.

Now, now. We've all made asses of ourselves when drunk at some time or another, I'm sure. - just not on live television.

That's not really the point, is it ? When Iggy gets pissed on TV, he's a hero.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=o4zQpFSYCJ0

But then again, that's what Iggy does. He's not supposed to be all intense and deep like Wayne.
In the end, I suppose it's all about being consistent. You can't pretend to be some kind of goth lord (even if Wayne looks much more like hippy scum to me), and then make a complete ass of yourself on live TV. It just doesn't make sense.

Much like when, at a goth event, velvet clad goth babes get pissed and puke just like the rest of us mere mortals. Style, like everything else, comes with a price.

Good Tunes (sometimes)
Crappy lyrics (always)

but he has never disappointed live. 4 times with the Mish and once on his own he has blown me away. And I haven't been blown away by the Sisters since '97

Izzy HaveMercy wrote: And at DeWinter, there are indeed similarities, but some things stand out. As said as well, Wayne can't leave it behind to make the odd Sisters-related comment on concerts, which was to the point 20 years ago, but is really growing a beard in 2000 for example.

He did this in Edinburgh; well, he did it in M'era Luna as well, when playing 'Waistband'. He just changed that one chord back and started laughing at his own private little joke saying 'hey, this sounds familiar, not?'

Har har.

Also, the Sisters have a lot of good songs and they have some bad songs.

The Mish just have one song copied over several albums, IMO. All plain dull and rather boring. Some are nice songs, tho. I really like '(all over this) Waistband' and 'Butterfly on a Wheel' is a beautiful tune, but the rest is just mainstream singalong Goth-poprock.

Well, I've no idea how long the TSOM website has been in existence, but Eldritch wasn't above making some "full-time s**t" comment about Hussey on the "Dr Avalanche" section, so it cuts both ways.
Good to bad songs is hard to tell, since the Sisters only released three albums. And the one everyone agrees was brilliant featured both of them on. Of the albums Eldritch has released on his lonesome his record is one good, one bloody terrible near self-parody.
And will people STOP calling Hussey's lyrics terrible? Especially when the man you're comparing him to was capable of writing dribble like the Vision Thing chorus??And quite a few of his recent efforts only have about four lines repeated anyway, Suzanne for example. Lovely tune, lucky the Stone Roses didn't hear it and sue, though..

To me, theres just a section of TSOM fandom online who've taken hero-worship to a whole new level, and seem to think copying Eldritch's phrases, opinions, etc gets them some bizarre form of brownie points. Exaggerated "hate" of a man they know nothing about is just part of it.
I used to think the FOTN fans who could read occult meanings into a bit of extra HTML code on the official website were pretty rectal, but some Sisters fans really give them a run for their money..

DeWinter wrote:To me, theres just a section of TSOM fandom online who've taken hero-worship to a whole new level, and seem to think copying Eldritch's phrases, opinions, etc gets them some bizarre form of brownie points. Exaggerated "hate" of a man they know nothing about is just part of it.
I used to think the FOTN fans who could read occult meanings into a bit of extra HTML code on the official website were pretty rectal, but some Sisters fans really give them a run for their money..

Agreed.

Go figure

Everyone has a right at his/her own opinion, of course.

Seems you made yours up already about most Sisters fans.

Simply put, I like the Sisters for some reasons, I don't like the Mish for some reasons. All of these reasons have to do with the music.

I really can't be arsed to follow the alleged Eldo/Hussey struggle, which is almost nonexistant at the moment. I never heard Eldo say bad things about the Mish on a Live Sisters gig the past ten years. Wayne did about the Sisters, so that makes him the cry-baby in my eyes.

I have far more important stuff to do than to indulge in digging into the private s**t of two rock stars. They got paparazzi for that, it's their job. I mainly listen to music because I like it and because I'm a musician myself.

Sisters strike a chord somewhere most of the time, Mish don't. Point final.

IZ.

For me and my mates, who followed the sisters from '83, when the mish split we gave them the benefit of the doubt. Saw them all over the place, went to the fan club day at nottingham rock city, reading, etc, while we waited for the AE response.

The first album or so...and all the 12" singles... were good fun and we waited for them to be great... and waited...and waited...
...but they didn't.

As some others have pointed out...
1. You can still stick some of them on the cd and enjoy it for what it is
2. wayne IS the ideal clown to point at sometimes
3. They really did disappoint, but it was something to buy at the time

there, thats the culprit history lesson/ explanation

Hatred is too strong a word... FEEL THE LOVE!

DeWinter wrote:To me, theres just a section of TSOM fandom online who've taken hero-worship to a whole new level, and seem to think copying Eldritch's phrases, opinions, etc gets them some bizarre form of brownie points. Exaggerated "hate" of a man they know nothing about is just part of it.
I used to think the FOTN fans who could read occult meanings into a bit of extra HTML code on the official website were pretty rectal, but some Sisters fans really give them a run for their money..

In fairness, this would be the same section who adore VT for it's political content only. You get the impression that they wouldn't really care if the music was Moldavian nose flutes or the frog chorus. Quite a lot of them seem to hang out on Dominion.

But... it's not really fair to tar all Sisters fans with that particular brush. I know you didn't say that specifically, but it does come across between the lines (apologies in advance if I'm just being paranoid here).

I'd also add that the title of the thread is a little misleading for some.

It isn't so much hatred of any sort but more a complete drop off of interest or relevance to the musical taste. The problem is that with the history (such that it is) between people/bands it's very easy for that to get wrapped up in generalised terms and seen as "anti" rather than "apathy" heading that way.

I know I don't hate the latter end Mish stuff because it's them, but simply because I can't stand the style they're at now. If they'd released a cracking album I'd have been as happy to buy it as anybody.

Probably redundant in this thread so far but felt like typing it .......

Any of the Jocko Homos see the review of the Mish's new album in the Herald yesterday? OUCH!

I'll have to see if I can find it somewhere, it was a corker...

i think i might go and listen to the 1st side of children

Carpathian Psychonaut wrote: It isn't so much hatred of any sort but more a complete drop off of interest or relevance to the musical taste. The problem is that with the history (such that it is) between people/bands it's very easy for that to get wrapped up in generalised terms and seen as "anti" rather than "apathy" heading that way.

Preach baby, preach !!!

Hey, let's face it : it's interesting to talk about the Mish. This thread proves it. Much more interesting in fact than the music itself.

Aye aye.

It also seem to be the case that if the Mish make a crap LP, any criticism of it is met with accusations of "Wayne bashing". That's just not the case - a crap LP is a crap LP (and dodgy lyrics remain dodgy lyrics) irrespective of anything that may have gone down in 1985/86.

mh wrote: It also seem to be the case that if the Mish make a crap LP, any criticism of it is met with accusations of "Wayne bashing".

So right. He could be called Jerry Lovelock for all I care.
Or even Joey Jo-Jo Jr. Shabadoo. I still wouldn't be interested.

Some people are quick to dish out the Wayne hate, but people forget that (if the Hamburg 21.9.85 recording is to be believed) Wayne remained loyal longer than Marx and Adams, and I don't see anyone hating them.

nick the stripper wrote:Now, now. We've all made asses of ourselves when drunk at some time or another, I'm sure.

At least Wayne has that video. All I have is a black hole in my memory. Most irksome.

DeWinter wrote:I used to think the FOTN fans who could read occult meanings into a bit of extra HTML code on the official website were pretty rectal, but some Sisters fans really give them a run for their money..

When there's been very little in the way of new material people take what scraps theyre given.