Heartland

sultan2075 wrote:I meant aberration in the sense of a statistical aberration, i.e., it's not very common. As for your other comments, yes, I think that what you're describing is the result of the loss of a sense of community identity. We increasingly become isolated egos, communicating with each other indirectly, etc, etc, etc. We cease to see other human beings as anything other than other isolated egos, so really, who gives a damn what happens to them? We disconnect ourselves from community, and then we act surprised when people with no sense of community beyond their tribe (goth, punk, chav,* etc) start preying on non-members. I think this is the logical result of group identity politics pushed to an extreme.






*What, exactly, is a "chav"? I gather it's some sort low-class white British wannabe gangster. Is that correct?

-Ultimately, we're in agreement here, despite coming from radically-different viewpoints.

-Yep (i.e., "wigger").

SINsister wrote:
-Ultimately, we're in agreement here, despite coming from radically-different viewpoints.

Well then, we must be right

SINsister wrote:
-Yep (i.e., "wigger").

I had hoped to avoid that word So they've spread to the other side of the pond? Alas.

Big Si wrote:

Syberberg wrote:

boudicca wrote:I wouldn't be at all surprised if those who define themselves as goffix were less likely to commit a violent crime than average...

Quite right, back when I was living in the Northeast, the 2 clubs I frequented, Blazes, in Middlesborough, and The Gemini, in Hartlepool, the bouncers enjoyed the "alternative" nights as there was never any trouble. Except from random trendies who arrived with the specific purpose of causing trouble.

Wasn't Blazes on a Saturday? I remember there was another Middlesbrough club night, but I can't remember the name of it! It were House music downstairs and metal-goth-indie upstairs.

Blazes was Thursday and Saturday, The Gemini Thursdays and the upstairs/downstairs was The Arena.

EDIT: Regarding "chavs". There has always been a section of the white urban lower-class youth that have been violent towards one another and everyone else outside their tribe. You can trace it's modern roots back to the Mods and Rocks, possibly the Teddy Boys as well. The problem now, however, is that as a percentage of the population it's grown as the numbers of "have nots" has grown and the cohesive society has broken down. The demographic group in question has been given different slang names in different decades in the UK. In the 1980's they were called "trendies", in the nineties they were "larger louts" and now we have "chavs".

The other problem we have now, is that the violence isn't just restricted to the male members of the group, but females are becoming just as violent.

SINsister, the Maldive Islands in the Indian Ocean have always had a matriarchal society and some of the Celtic tribes traced inheritance and lineage through the female line. Then there's the Nagovisi of South Bougainville (an island west of New Guinea and north of Australia), the Khasi and the Garo, who are agricultural peoples who live in hill districts in Meghalaya state in North-Eastern India, the Machiguenga people of Peru and the Mosuo people, who live in the Xiaolianghshan Mountains, Yunnan province (South East China).

As for male domination being the problem, I agree, but it's more of a cause rather than an effect, IMHO.

Badlander wrote:... I mean, when there's no land and no natural resources to steal, and no one to reduce to slavery.

Nothing wrong with slavery per se - it has been a staple of human society since the beginning, and is the classic form of punishment for defeated tribes. The problem only comes when one group of people sees itself as "superior" to another group, on the basis of skin colour, religion, or whatever.
Perhaps the applicable punishment for the scrotes that did this is penal servitude. We're not talking some lily-livered community service here, we're talking hard labour - cracking rocks, that kind of thing.
While prison must include an element of rehabilitation it must also include an element of punishment.

EvilBastard wrote:Nothing wrong with slavery per se - it has been a staple of human society since the beginning, and is the classic form of punishment for defeated tribes.

WOW. *Backs away slowly*

I haven't read the whole thread & not sure I want to really.Just saw the picture & immediately thought of Claire & Jo (that's who the photo reminded me of) & my blood went suddenly cold.
When I saw Manchester, I was really sick inside, as I'd been not far from there recently & just had this , i don't know how to describe the feeling, numbness i guess.
I'm raising a glass to Sophie right now



What a waste.

Too true Steve, this is one thread that should not be de-railed. Be it in good faith or the inane gibberings of the logically deprived

Bloody Heartbreaking

weebleswobble wrote:Too true Steve, this is one thread that should not be de-railed. Be it in good faith or the inane gibberings of the logically deprived

Bloody Heartbreaking

Well said.

I got news of this via MySpazz (good gods, it actually proved usefull for once) and felt obligated to do whatever I could to spread the word considering the UK national media has reacted to this with complete and predictable apathy.

Once again, links for further info ect.,

Here

and

Here

and

Here

It's really upset me more than I thought.
I don't know them from adam & i am finding myself in tears on my balcony

Pista wrote:It's really upset me more than I thought.
I don't know them from adam & i am finding myself in tears on my balcony

I know where you're coming from brother.

SINsister wrote:

EvilBastard wrote:Nothing wrong with slavery per se - it has been a staple of human society since the beginning, and is the classic form of punishment for defeated tribes.

WOW. *Backs away slowly*

What's the difference between "I've beaten your tribe in battle, now you are my slave" and "You have transgressed the laws of my tribe, now you must work for no pay as punishment"? Nothing significant, surely.

Although I've not been reduced to tears, it did leave me feeling I had to do something and very, very angry.

What I hope this doesn't result in are revenge attacks. There are always extreme elements in any given society, but I hope the members of the alternative subcluture, be they goths, industrialists, cyber-goths, cyberpunks or whatever, rise above and unite.

That's not to say I wouldn't condone self-defense though, just no revenge.

Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

This whole thing reminds me of a jungle documentation I once saw where a gang of chimpanzees "on patrol" beat another chimp to death with sticks because it didn't belong to their horde and apparently had strayed into their territory. It was sickeningly brutal and made me think twice about those "cute" apes. Looks like a few of us aren't at all above animal behaviour. Homo sapiens is just a thin veneer over a sweaty, brutal beast, and I think it's a learned thing. Probably youths growing up in desolate neighbourhoods without a functioning society never learn that behaviour and as such never really rise above the beast. That's something that definitely has to be addressed or we will have whole ghettos patrolled by chimps with sticks (or knives, guns for that matter).

nowayjose wrote:That's something that definitely has to be addressed or we will have whole ghettos patrolled by chimps with sticks (or knives, guns for that matter).

I dunno where you live, nowayjose, but here in the U.S., we already do.

SINsister wrote:

nowayjose wrote:That's something that definitely has to be addressed or we will have whole ghettos patrolled by chimps with sticks (or knives, guns for that matter).

I dunno where you live, nowayjose, but here in the U.S., we already do.

It also seems to be something that happens whenever you cram too many people into too small a space and when the gap between the haves and the have nots widens, with a growing number of have-nots.

Pista wrote:

I think someone needs a hug.

Pista wrote:

Yep.

I haven't chimed in yet for one main reason - knowing what to say. We really shouldn't have to be having these conversations and yet, on an almost daily basis now, another one rears it's head somewhere else in the country.

Personally I could go a far longer time without having to wonder what was going through the heads of those there - on both sides. Sadly, though, I get the feeling that it's yet another sign of the times.

Kids being shot or knifed? Types from one group or another getting mobbed for fun?

Strange days indeed........

Still not a happy soul over here, don't even know why I'm posting really.
They aren't like soldiers or anything.
They might wear a "uniform" of sorts but they don't, in fact nobody, deserves that.
I need a hug right now & Millhouse has gone out

What do/can we do, though, when governments and people in positions of political power continue to set the example that intolerance, violence, and subjugation are correct and acceptable ways in which to "deal with" unwanted/feared/mistrusted/hated "others"?

Pista wrote:I need a hug right now & Millhouse has gone out

I can only offer you virtual hugs from here, Steve, but you've got 'em aplenty. {{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}

SINsister wrote:

Pista wrote:I need a hug right now & Millhouse has gone out

I can only offer you virtual hugs from here, Steve, but you've got 'em aplenty. {{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}

Thanks Erika.
That means a lot to me right now.

Anytime, man.