London's Burning

[bearskin]

Me and family had enough of what was beginning to fester in UK cities about ten years ago. Sorry to say, we bailed out and moved somewhere else.

My understanding is that NZ and Australia are still very much welcoming to anyone who feels the same and wants to make something of their lives without the utter sh!t that England is descending into. Looking at the newsfeeds over the internet, I know we made the right decision for us: there are alternatives, and places where you can get on with life in a different manner - even with a sense of optimism and joy.

[Garbageman]

Totally agree with you boss. They deserve the book being thrown at them. They have no consideration for others and are destroying innocent peoples businesses.Where is their reasoning in doing this?

[splintered thing]

Me and family had enough of what was beginning to fester in UK cities about ten years ago. Sorry to say, we bailed out and moved somewhere else.

My understanding is that NZ and Australia are still very much welcoming to anyone who feels the same and wants to make something of their lives without the utter sh!t that England is descending into. Looking at the newsfeeds over the internet, I know we made the right decision for us: there are alternatives, and places where you can get on with life in a different manner - even with a sense of optimism and joy.

Funny... we are presently contemplating the opposite - we have wanted to move to the UK for years. Looks like that is on the back burner for a while. There are plenty of pockets of unpleasantness here too, it is just such a shame people can't live happily together... we are a difficult species.

[bearskin]

Funny... we are presently contemplating the opposite - we have wanted to move to the UK for years. Looks like that is on the back burner for a while. There are plenty of pockets of unpleasantness here too, it is just such a shame people can't live happily together... we are a difficult species.

I've been a regular visitor to Melbourne over the last few years, and I definitely know what you mean. Aussie has a fair few pockets of low-life, but apart from the biker gangs, it seemed to me to be mainly 'drongoism' - just really really dumb pr1cks who behave in an antisocial way due to knowing no better/other way. In the UK, people do know the difference but don't give a stuff - real disenfranchised youth (mainly).
And there is still a few race issues - as in NZ - but you have to live in a large English city to experience the actual fear of daily life. Not for me.

[markfiend]

Mr Fiend:

As much as I love you, your post on the first page was complete and utter bollox. As have some of your follow ups been. From someone who openly made a statement on HL not to be so arrogant, hypocritical and judgemental, you seem to forget quickly.

We're good friends in real life even though you're a Leftie (I was being polite) and I'm somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun.

But having said that, and I'm being totally straight here; your avatar has been bugging me ever since you posted it. What next? Black face?

You know enough about me to not even get me started on reverse racism.

Just idle thoughts my friend, idle thoughts.

Love as always.

Wow.

I've removed my avatar. It was certainly not intended in the way you think. Sh!t.

I can see it now though.

I'll reply to the rest later.

[DeWinter]

That doesn't justify it. There are far more people up and down the country in the same position (ie in the rioters' shoes) who don't riot. It's not like it's the natural and only response. It's the response of people who choose to be violent and to take it out on entirely innocent people.

Finally!!

The rioters over the country can't number a thousand people at most. A proportion of those living in "relative poverty" so small it must be statistically insignificant.
I don't know if anyone's read "The Woman in White", but one of the characters asks why the Howard League is so concerned about the poor criminals in prisons, but isn't as concerned about the conditions of the workhouse where the good are poor and miserable. It's a state of mind this country has had for a long time.

[Quiff Boy]

what a very strange night...

fwiw, we were sat in a pub in the centre of town yesterday evening... most other bars, shops and restaurants were shut.

we left the pub about 830/9ish as it started to get dark and the landlord decided to shut.

we walked through town with our mate, to her apartment to make sure she got home safely. we stayed there for an hour or so, then wandered back across town to ours.

in that time we crossed deansgate twice, walked past the town hall once, and apart from a policeman stood guarding a small sainsburys which had had a window put through, all we say were disparate groups of kids in hoodies and scarves covering their faces, most of them on bikes

typically there would be a group of 4 or 5 of them walking/cycling around, clearly trying to look hard and menacing and take advantage of the panic and air of fear the media had stirred up

frankly they looked like snotty little scrotes. proper chavvy "ten men" from the local estates, come into town to ride on the coat-tails of some mythical "rioters"

these weren't rioters, they were looting kids

they didnt want to send out any message other how hard they were, and woooooo, shouldn;t we be scared of them

anyway, the long and short of it is that we're perfectly fine, our apartment building is (so far ) completely untouched, and the so-called rioters were nothing of the sort. they were yobbish kids out for what they could get.

bunch of c*nts

what a strange evening.

[markfiend]

After some thought...

Yes the looters are different from the rioters and the original demonstrators, and their behaviour cannot be excused.

But the point still stands; the police shot dead Mark Duggan. Whether or not Duggan was armed is pretty much by-the-by. The Met is seen by a lot of people as being fundamentally broken, and has been for a long time now.

And when you already think that the police are "not on your side", calls for a crack-down, or for sending in the military (FFS), are only going to make matters worse.

[Debaser]

Me and family had enough of what was beginning to fester in UK cities about ten years ago. Sorry to say, we bailed out and moved somewhere else.

My understanding is that NZ and Australia are still very much welcoming to anyone who feels the same and wants to make something of their lives without the utter sh!t that England is descending into. Looking at the newsfeeds over the internet, I know we made the right decision for us: there are alternatives, and places where you can get on with life in a different manner - even with a sense of optimism and joy.

Funny... we are presently contemplating the opposite - we have wanted to move to the UK for years. Looks like that is on the back burner for a while. There are plenty of pockets of unpleasantness here too, it is just such a shame people can't live happily together... we are a difficult species.

but you have to live in a large English city to experience the actual fear of daily life. Not for me.

So don't live in a large English city. There are an awful lot of small English cities, towns and villages where we're not all in fear for our lives. Infact, I'm sure there are a fair few people who do live in large English cities who are not petrified to walk through their home towns. TV, media and the internet have once again managed to whip this up into a frenzy and we have seen the knock-on effect in Birmingham, Leeds and Manchester.

So Mr Splinter, don't let a minority put you off.

Australia has funnel web spiders - now they ARE scary! Can't think of anything that New Zealand has that could kill you.

And remind me Bearskin, how many of your favourite bands play in your country?

[James Blast]

NZ has Orcs, they're pretty scary

[Quiff Boy]

i've lived smack-bang in the centre of manchester for over 5 years now and i've never once feared for my safety.

my sanity, yes, but not my safety

[markfiend]

The people in Tottenham had a legit motive to peacefully protest. But until the truth comes out, we're all guessing as to what actually happened that resulted in Mr Duggan's death.

Otherwise, everything since then has been pure criminality. It's violence and looting. It's destroying people's livelihoods. It's killing their communities. The rioters/looters don't give a s**t.

For what it's worth, I agree with this.

I'm trying to explain the actions of the rioters, not excuse them. Apologies if that's not what it looks like.

I do think a crack-down would risk inflaming things further though. Your mileage may vary.

[James Blast]

Cut off their goolies!

[Sita]

Splintered Thing, If you like Britain, why not move there? As a regular visitor, I think the British are in comparison a fairly civilised and well-mannered people My friends who relocated to England live on the countryside, and don't even lock their doors. You don't have to live in town where, I believe since antiquity (read Juvenal's description of Rome), there's social problems.

[Back in time]

It is very difficult to judge by the picture that we receive from different media, there is always a reason why most of the reports are usually owerblown, but making my opinion based on available information I believe that a strong reaction would eventually disperse the rioters.

[Silver_Owl]

It is very difficult to judge by the picture that we receive from different media, there is always a reason why most of the reports are usually owerblown, but making my opinion based on available information I believe that a strong reaction would eventually disperse the rioters.

But who knows where the next group is going to spring up? I mean, who would have predicted Gloucester as a riot hotspot?
Very difficult to Police.

[damagedone]

sad things are happening in the UK,but what seems to be the real problem is that the police forces can't cope with this situastion.
I can't imagine something like this happens in Rusia for example and spreading city after city.These so called rioters and looters would be crushed with any means possible and I don't see anything wrong with it.
It seems that UK police try to be as "political correct" as possible but this is clearly not a solution.

[Silver_Owl]

sad things are happening in the UK,but what seems to be the real problem is that the police forces can't cope with this situastion.
I can't imagine something like this happens in Rusia for example and spreading city after city.These so called rioters and looters would be crushed with any means possible and I don't see anything wrong with it.
It seems that UK police try to be as "political correct" as possible but this is clearly not a solution.

As I said above...How? Who knows where it will be next?

[emilystrange]

why has teresa may refused to meet the police federation? that's what bbc report.

[Pista]

why has teresa may refused to meet the police federation? that's what bbc report.

She's adopting the Murdoch/ teflon shoulders strategy perhaps?

[Debaser]

It seems that UK police try to be as "political correct" as possible but this is clearly not a solution.

And whose fault is that? In a time when 'it's not my fault - society has made me like I am' the blame always seem to lie elsewhere.

Everyone has their own 'comfortable story' I broke the law because I am disaffected. Not, I broke the law because I do not/nor care whether it is right or wrong.

[Quiff Boy]

apparently it's starting to kick off again in manchester

not sure if it will of the same scale as last night due to the f*ck-tonne of rain that currently pouring from the sky

we'll see...

[MadameButterfly]

and apparently from our news here, the police are finally going to put in rubber bullets?

it's very sad that this is happening and just hope you all keep safe!

and hope that this comes to an end very quickly.

[Quiff Boy]

this was the scene last night on jutland street, just round the back of our offices

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1b74BdPfSQ

[abridged]

and apparently from our news here, the police are finally going to put in rubber bullets?

it's very sad that this is happening and just hope you all keep safe!

and hope that this comes to an end very quickly.

One of the things that causing some merriment around here is the reluctance to use water cannon and plastic bullets in England when they are quite freely used (the water cannon at least) on us vicious rioting Irish every summer. Most of the rioters are around 16 over here also and for the majority it's a bit of craic mixed with blatant sectarianism. I consider myself to be of the left but have found myself increasingly not buying the we have no future so we burn down homes and loot tvs argument. If it's accurate how can deprivation be an excuse for attacking a hospital? For the record I'm from a council estate in what is classed a very deprived area.