Heartland

Indeed, but most people that have success with needle dropping discover that their transfers sound better than the digital counterparts, even when their transfers have been down-sampled to match the digital counterpart (16 bit 44.1 khz on CD).

I wonder what went on when SGWBM was put together. I assume the master tapes were used, or at least mint vinyl copies. The songs don't sound like they've been remastered, which is good, but their transfers are so lifeless and flat sounding that the compilation does a disservice to the band's back catalogue IMO.

I suppose I should add Mofi's Floodland LP to the list!

The intro of Colours (Floodland) is not the same on LP / CD. On CD, it fades in, on LP, it starts at full volume. I prefer the LP version.

Aazhyd wrote:The intro of Colours (Floodland) is not the same on LP / CD. On CD, it fades in, on LP, it starts at full volume. I prefer the LP version.

you just made me wonder how many years i don't listen Floodland...i don't remember Colours was there

I thought Colours was at the single of This Corrosion

iesus wrote:I thought Colours was at the single of This Corrosion

True. But first of all, Colours was on Gift ... ...

http://sisterswiki.org/Colours_%28song%29

True, but i bought Gift after This Corrosion single

Petseri wrote:

Bartek wrote:Wiki says that Dr Jeep had/has same song on CD and vinyl. I got Dr Jeep CD, i can check that later.
TOL (original and '92) (short) is not available on CD.

I think that I have the short versionof ToL92 on a German compilation. I will try to dig it out and check.

Temple 92 can be found here:
http://www.allmusic.com/album/lost-prop ... 0000984590

btw: Is the ASCOO -Mix of Body&Soul really the same as the 12"-Version??

robertzombie wrote:I've been trying to compile a list of all the tracks that were released on vinyl but haven't subsequently been released on CD (e.g. the Body & Soul b-sides).

I think I've got a complete list. There are a couple of times where 7" versions (e.g. This Corrosion) were released on promo CDs but not widely distributed, so I've included them.

Is this list correct?
[...]

This Corrosion 7" & 12"
[...]

+ Jim-Steinman-Mix (Cass.)

BODY AND SOUL

I've now transferred both Body And Soul singles, 7" and 12". The mixes of Body And Soul and Train are different on both singles, in both cases they are the same length. A Slight Case of Overbombing features the 7" mix of Body And Soul, which has more subdued and colder sounding drums. The 12" mixes of both tracks are brighter and more professional sounding, but the 12" is more compressed than the 7".

Body And Soul: The 12" mix has more drum FX, brighter lead guitar, and I think more vocal FX. The 7" mix features the aforementioned colder drum sounds, less FX on the snare, and slightly wispier vocal FX.

Train: The 7" mix again shares the same colder drum production (we're talking *slight* differences here) and a less open guitar sound in comparison to the 12". The 7" mix has a thicker bass EQ on Eldritch's voice.

Personally, I prefer the sound of the 12" mixes, they are more professional and cleaner sounding than the 7". However, the 7" has a greater dynamic range, despite the somewhat murky production.

[quote="Body And Soul 12", dynamic range values"]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR9 -0.18 dB -12.44 dB 01 Body And Soul.wav
DR8 -2.07 dB -12.13 dB 02 Body Electric.wav
DR11 -1.80 dB -13.84 dB 03 Train.wav
DR10 -0.45 dB -13.79 dB 04 Afterhours.wav
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of files: 4
Official DR value: DR10

==============================================================================================
[/quote]

[quote="Body And Soul 7", dynamic range values"]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed folder: C:\Users\Robert\Desktop\7wav\
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR11 -0.15 dB -13.95 dB 01 Body And Soul.wav
DR11 -0.49 dB -12.52 dB 02 Train.wav
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of files: 2
Official DR value: DR11

==============================================================================================
[/quote]

TL;DR: Everything on the Body And Soul singles is unique to vinyl with the exception of the 7" title track. There are two different mixes of Train.

"Driver"

AshenLight wrote:"Driver"

Was never available officially on vinyl either.

Always remember that CD mastering and vinyl mastering is done in a different way, apart from (to use one of John Bishops finer expressions) the cd Mastering Engineer being a total knob

Hence, it is quite difficult to compare the two WAV files. Compression is done in a different way due to the characteristics of vinyl/cd thus the sound can be quite different as well.

Some interesting reading maybe:

"How do you know if a vinyl master is audibly superior than the CD master?

You ask the mastering engineer what he did. Other that, that, generally, you don't know. There are certainly many wrong ways to determine this, which can lead to false positives and false negatives.
Many people look at large-scale waveform plots, like those available in Audacity and Audition, and compare the waveforms across the entire piece of music. This does not work. The distortions present in vinyl - everything from subsample delays in the recording process to phase errors in the analog electronics to tracking and tracing distortion - ensure that even if the vinyl is cut with the exact same master as the CD, the peaks will be considerably higher, even during regions of gross clipping. Thus this technique is generally not acceptable, even though it is by far the most popular.
RMS loudness estimates, such as the industry standard RMS figure and ReplayGain, are ineffective because they require a reference level to compare the vinyl and CD versions against. No such reference level exists.
Experimental dynamic range estimators, such as pfpf and SparkleMeter, are useful in teasing out substantial differences in dynamic range, and may be quite useful in estimating when they become audible, rather than . pfpf, in particular, is designed to be immune to moderate levels of clipping distortion, under the expectation that clipping is either going to be inaudible or going to affect the timbral character of the music, not the dynamic range.
The one consistently accepted method of showing reduced compression is to show the individual samples in a clipped waveform against the same waveform in a different master that is not clipped. But again, this method is not foolproof: Various distortions can mask the clipping so that it is not consistently at the signal peak, yet still retains its characteristic distortion. However, clipping may not exist obviously in hypercompressed music, and even if a difference exists, it very well may not be audible."

IZ.

robertzombie wrote:BODY AND SOUL
I've now transferred both Body And Soul singles, 7" and 12". The mixes of Body And Soul and Train are different on both singles....

Thanks so much for this comparison, that's a longstanding mystery finally solved!

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:"How do you know if a vinyl master is audibly superior than the CD master?
IZ.

If you like it better then it's superior. End of.

stufarq wrote:

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:"How do you know if a vinyl master is audibly superior than the CD master?
IZ.

If you like it better then it's superior. End of.

Us audio geeks search for more exotic explanations

IZ.

robertzombie wrote:BODY AND SOUL

I've now transferred both Body And Soul singles, 7" and 12" ...

I finally ripped my copy of the 12" last year and Afterhours (IMO, one of the very best Sisters' tracks) sounds really nasty in places, as if it's overloading or clipping or something. The disc is in pretty good condition and I used a Rega Planar 3 / Behringer USB Phono interface to rip the audio; I suspect the distortion is in the original mastering. Do you hear anything similar?

Thanks.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:

stufarq wrote:

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:"How do you know if a vinyl master is audibly superior than the CD master?
IZ.

If you like it better then it's superior. End of.

Us audio geeks search for more exotic explanations

IZ.

I know. You're analysing the chemicals instead of smelling the roses.

For body & soul: anyone compared both uk and german pressings already?
Thanks

Afterhours is distorted on my copy. A deliberate choice I think.

stufarq wrote:

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:

stufarq wrote: If you like it better then it's superior. End of.

Us audio geeks search for more exotic explanations

IZ.

I know. You're analysing the chemicals instead of smelling the roses.

Breaking Bad, Izzy Style!

IZ.

robertzombie wrote:Afterhours is distorted on my copy. A deliberate choice I think.

I figured as much, but thanks for the confirmation.

oneiros wrote:

robertzombie wrote:Afterhours is distorted on my copy. A deliberate choice I think.

I figured as much, but thanks for the confirmation.

I have 3 different vinyl versions and all 3 are distorted when the guitar kicks in

Not vinyl, but I should probably add the This Corrosion cassingle to the list of cuts not available on CD. The two versions of the title track appear to stem from one unique mix (the choir is quite obviously mixed differently), the edit of Colours has a hissy saw synth streaming through the whole track (I haven't compared it to the CD single to see if they're the same but, listening on tape, that synth line popped out at me), and Torch is missing the closing bass notes.

On a separate note, the Canadian pressing of Floodland just sold for £60 on eBay. I noticed that on the label almost every song has a different running time to normal, they're replicated on the Discogs entry: http://www.discogs.com/Sisters-Of-Mercy ... se/1590021

Discogs wrote: Tracklist
A1 Dominion / Mother Russia 6:49
A2 Flood I 6:02
A3 Lucretia My Reflection 4:43
A4 1959 4:00
B1 This Corrosion 8:56
B2 Flood II 6:01
B3 Driven Like The Snow 4:26
B4 Never Land (A Fragment) 2:37

Are the tracks actually different lengths, or is it a mistake?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151325378243? ... 26_rdc%3D1

seriously, warm lemon drink is needed here