Heartland

Bartek wrote:

iesus wrote:

markfiend wrote:Like you mentioned on page one Bart it's scary to see the parallels between this and the Sudetenland.
...

It seems, this is not a similar case at all. In many point views.

yeah, it's more like mix of Czechoslovakia'38 and Anschluss.

Indeed, that's what I meant, the Sudeten crisis of '38.

markfiend wrote:

Bartek wrote:

iesus wrote: It seems, this is not a similar case at all. In many point views.

yeah, it's more like mix of Czechoslovakia'38 and Anschluss.

Indeed, that's what I meant, the Sudeten crisis of '38.

And what exactly similarities you see in that case?

A dictatorial leader with expansionist hopes using speakers of his country's native language in another country as a pretext for occupation of (parts of) that other country.

You mean Vlad Mustaine ?

that is terrifying

markfiend wrote:A dictatorial leader with expansionist hopes using speakers of his country's native language in another country as a pretext for occupation of (parts of) that other country.

and let not forget that Third Reich had same excuse - procetcion of their fellow citizens living abroad or people who claimed that they were ethnic Germans, or just national minority in foreign countries (Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland). Russia, before it all started, to make this 'argument' even stronger, gave people living in Ukraine (including Crimea), claiming and proving that they had Russian ancestor(s), Russian passports.

and strategic importance of region. of course Crimea is much more valuable on this point than Czechoslovak border fortifications, but resemblance, at least to me, it's obvious.

Strangely, i heard in the past that Mustaine won the elections in his country and it is president of his country and not dictator

Hitler won elections too.

Thatcher too but none called her like that

I disagree. I would totally call Thatcher "dictatorial".

markfiend wrote:Given that the UK's financial services industry relies on laundering money for Russian gangsters for a lot of its business, I wouldn't be overly hopeful of anything other than "tut-tut" noises from the UK government.

Don't blame me, I didn't vote for the bastards.

Oh yeah, and I forgot... If we start sanctions against Europe's largest gas supplier, people will quickly complain when their means of cooking and heating disappear.

ekhm, we didn't forget about that.
civilians without gas for heating is not a problem - this is not a (cold) winter, cooking - TV dinner and frozen food heated in microwave should/could sort that problem, in short time. i'd more worried about chemical companies and other companies using gas.

in the meantime Gerhard Schröder got another possition, this time in Rosnieft. Nord stream is build and works so now it's time for oil.

i read interview with Richard Pipes, he said, and that's obvious, that Europe nor US of A want war, but he pointed economical sanctions are way to punish Putler.

on other news, according to Ukrainan press not-a-russian-army-not-specnaz prepare to launch an assault on Ukrainan base in Crimea. and btw. i'm kinda wondering why any of politics and diplomats say nothing about that? or maybe it's a pink elephant?

And now for something completely different - joke

Victor Yanukovich is still the acting president of Ukraine, but he can't talk to Ukraine because Ukraine has no president. On Putler

Bartek wrote:let's-see-how-far-we-can-go policy ?

OK. I have to admit that I had not imagined things to be like this, but obviously, they are ... ...

Being645 wrote:

Bartek wrote:let's-see-how-far-we-can-go policy ?

OK. I have to admit that I had not imagined things to be like this, but obviously, they are ... ...

Really? This is utterly unsurprising.

Ik stel voor om het voorbeeld van de Oekraïense Rechtse volgen en het afschaffen van alle talen van de EU behalve Nederlands

sultan2075 wrote:

Being645 wrote:

Bartek wrote:let's-see-how-far-we-can-go policy ?

OK. I have to admit that I had not imagined things to be like this, but obviously, they are ... ...

Really? This is utterly unsurprising.

No, I don't think so. It is a result of developments over the last few years, and of course, of recent.
IMHO, Putin has a) given up his hope for recognition and is now just taking the "chance" to be bad and give
another sad and childish example for why humankind have never got further than the kindergarten we're still in ... a shame ... ...

We've got a proverb in Germany, perhaps it does exist in other countries as well: Once your reputation is in tatters, the opinion of others hardly matters...

Being645 wrote:

sultan2075 wrote:

Being645 wrote: OK. I have to admit that I had not imagined things to be like this, but obviously, they are ... ...

Really? This is utterly unsurprising.

No, I don't think so. It is a result of developments over the last few years, and of course, of recent.
IMHO, Putin has a) given up his hope for recognition and is now just taking the "chance" to be bad and give
another sad and childish example for why humankind have never got further than the kindergarten we're still in ... a shame ... ...

We've got a proverb in Germany, perhaps it does exist in other countries as well: Once your reputation is in tatters, the opinion of others hardly matters...

Hasn't Putin been talking about rebuilding the old Soviet empire for a number of years now? To who (other than Obama) is this a surprise? He's done exactly what my wife (born in the old USSR) has been predicting for years. He's done exactly what he said he would do. Why is anyone surprised by this? He did not exactly hide his intentions (nor are they being hidden toward Estonia).

sultan2075 wrote: Hasn't Putin been talking about rebuilding the old Soviet empire for a number of years now? To who (other than Obama) is this a surprise?

I still think that Putin is one of the more rational politicians today and the reappropriation of Crimea (which is mostly Russian) appears to work out as he planned with only a minimum of bloodshed. Unlike, for example, some other politicians who listen to the voice of God and then invade Iraq. However, as Putin is now with his back against the wall, who knows how he will react. IMHO we're wrong in putting too much pressure on the man. I don't think he wants to build a new Soviet union, he should know well enough that he hasn't got the money for that.

nowayjose wrote:

sultan2075 wrote: Hasn't Putin been talking about rebuilding the old Soviet empire for a number of years now? To who (other than Obama) is this a surprise?

I still think that Putin is one of the more rational politicians today and the reappropriation of Crimea (which is mostly Russian) appears to work out as he planned with only a minimum of bloodshed. Unlike, for example, some other politicians who listen to the voice of God and then invade Iraq. However, as Putin is now with his back against the wall, who knows how he will react. IMHO we're wrong in putting too much pressure on the man. I don't think he wants to build a new Soviet union, he should know well enough that he hasn't got the money for that.

A few points seem relevant:

1. Putin is perfectly rational. He pursues what he thinks is the national interest with all the cold-blooded intent of a reptile. I've often wished my own country had such a president.

2. Bush and Iraq have nothing to do with this.

3. Putin, by his own account, seems to be a revanchist interested in rebuilding the old empire. That does not mean he is a communist. I don't think "he wants to build a new Soviet union." I think he wants to restore Russian imperial greatness. These are not the same thing. First Person: An Astonishingly Frank Self-Portrait by Russia's President by Putin, Gevorkyan, Timakova, and Kolesnikov might be worth consulting.

Sultan is right here. obviously everyone could easily predicted another steps. as everyone could predicted that condemnations by other EU countries and US of A will be just a words and that mutuall business shall be as usual - like nothing happened.

what Putin is doing here is convincing his minions, sorry, countyrmen, that Russia is a world leader, at last, after years of humiliation everyone has to and do listen to Russia, everyone is waiting what their leader will say, how everyone in the World will respond to his words.

Putler will never give back this piece of land, that's Russian policy, that's what they're doing since 18th century- they sticking flag in ground and that land is their. and btw, I wondering if Russia like step back, give back Georgia that 11 km that they take them right before Sochi olimpic games begin.

I do like when our judgments being hazed by resentments; yes US of A did horrible and shamefull things, but what Putler's doing is, on ethical and moral ground, far worst, fact that there's almost none casualties change nothing, imo.

What i'm sure now is that Putin will resovle Moldova problem by officialy taking Transnistria.

Sultan seems to be correct in the 3 points mentioned. Although in the 3rd there are names and things i cannot tell about cause i don't know parts of them. But the main theme of him that he is for sure not a commu is true.
Mustaine is doing what others did in Cyprus, Yugoslavia and other parts of this planet the years past. Ukraine will no longer exists in a few years for one reason only and that is that it worth more the corpse than to be as it is today and we will see more territories leave than Crimea.
I would easily bet that if there was vote for independence in other states like Crimea next weeks the results will be to remain half the states of Ukraine in Ukraine.
And a normal simple person would not choose to stay in the part that will be in the hands of Nazi party that is taking control without elections in Kiev today.
The fact that none mentions that a Nazi party is taking control without elections in a European country for first time after ww2 is strange enough.

there's no Nazi party in Ukraine that "taking control without elections". there's is extreme-far-right party that is a PART - as one of parliment party, with 37/450 seats in Ukrainian parliament - of interim government.
As, btw, Golden Dawn is a part of Greece parliament, whether you like it or not.
but i predict that this party may grow stronger and stronger if EU/NATO will do nothing, and it will be a 'natural' consequence of standing still, using empty words and promises, and in the meantime, doing normal, regular business with Russia. but in the same time i hope that Ukrainians are wise enough to not let this happen.

Exactly because i know the connections of G.D.'s with that Nazi - Far right party that makes party in there. I don't like to see both grow up and none mention this.
just have a look at this to have an idea
http://www.grreporter.info/en/blood_rel ... azis/10791
and there are many more that is not known widely.
Ukrainian far right bloodbrothers of G.D.'s are Nazi either we like it or not.