F&L&A without Eldritch?

[czuczu]

For me the Sisters without would be like the Smiths without Morrissey. I'm sure Mr. Marr does great versions of Smiths songs but...

Having seen both several times, I would take Marr over Mozz - he may be the voice but musically his band cannot touch the Smiths whereas Johnny nails it so well you don't even notice the voice..

[mh]

So Ben Gunn has suggested the '83 era version should get back together? Excellent news.

You didn't answer my question: '84 musicians v 2016 musicians? Surely you miss the bass if nothing else?

This may come as a surprise: I don't actually rate the sound of the 84/85 Sisters so much, and that era of the Sisters is one that's not as important to me as others.

You see, the Sisters I first fell in love with was the Floodland era. The Sisters I next fell in love with and ended up loving most of all was the run of singles from Body Electric to Temple: the independent, pre-Hussey era. For me, the classic Sisters lineup is Eldritch/Marx/Adams, the classic bootleg is Amsterdam or Hamburg 83, the classic record is Reptile House, the classic photos are Philippe Carly's Brussels 83 set, the classic unreleased song is Good Things.

This is a different Sisters to what came in 84/85. They're post-punk rather than rock, they're low-budget, their songs are carried by rhythm rather than by melody, arrangements are more stripped-down and song structures are more interesting and varied than verse/chorus/verse/chorus/solo/chorus/fade, there are experiments that don't always work but at least they tried.

What Wayne did with the Sisters was important for the time, but ultimately it represents a low between two highs for me. He was certainly an accomplished guitar player, wrote some pretty melodies (and some total stinkers), he even wrote Blood Money which is an exception that I'll rank as highly as the earlier stuff.

And lest I be accused of anti-Wayne bias the same applies to Body & Soul, which was also of that era. Even Gary's side of FALAA (which has better songs than Wayne's) suffers from the jangly wash, submerged rhythms and formulaic arrangements.

I'd love to see all of the above not being misconstrued as "I hate FALAA" because I don't hate it; I just don't rate it near as highly as what came before or after.

Current era Sisters are doing something totally different again. I happen to like it, they're varying the sets, messing with the arrangements and are obviously having fun on stage. There's no twirly guitar sounds, but you know something - so what.

All of this is my opinion; you're allowed have yours, it's even allowed be different, but do let me have mine too.

[Nikolas Vitus Lagartija]

Not just the Sisters own songs but Gimme Shelter, Sister Ray, Ghost Rider/Louie, Louie.

That band rocked.

Funny that all those songs were played by The Sisters long before Wayne joined ... and honestly, I doubt they ever would have had he been in the band from the beginning. Most likely he had left in 1983 ... fully disapproving of the entire Reptile House EP ... ...

That's rubbish. Wayne said in a recent interview that Gimme Shelter is one of his all time favourite records.

And to be fair to Wayne (not a phrase I am traditionally associated with), he stated in 1984 that it was one of the reasons why he joined the band :"'Temple' had just been released, but I was swayed by the version of 'Gimme Shelter'"

[Silver_Owl]

All 4 of them would be very unlikely but the prospect of Gary, Craig, Wayne and Dr playing together would be a must-see regardless of who's singing - especially if it were someone singing audibly over respectably loud music.

As long as it's not that whiney voiced twit Corgan.

[MAndrews]

Having lit the blue touch paper ... I'm with Nik.

a) Not interested in FALAA with a guest singer while the real singer is alive. And definitely not with Billy Corgan.
b) Although 1984/5 is when I came in, the first side of the album hasn't worn that well for me. "The Marx Side" however is sensationally good, musically and lyrically.
c) Hussey seems to be attempting to create some narrative - across several interviews - with himself as the custodian of some authentic Sisters sound. I'm not buying that for a second. I saw The Sisterhood in Birmingham in '86 and it was instantly clear, even then, that that band was barely related to The Sisters. 30 years later, I'm not having it either.
d) On recent evidence all three of the current Sisters seem to be on fine form. Maybe I've struck lucky with clips, but that line-up seems to be in the best shape of its entire 10 years.
e) I'm a great fan of the Enormodome years, so if I had to watch an alternate Sisters it would have to be some combination of the Bruhn, Pearson, Varjak line-up.
f) Or the Marx/Eldritch/Adams/Gunn iteration which I never saw. I've lost all my Sisters bootlegs bar one: fortunately, it's Leeds Warehouse in '83 "with all the slow ones cut out." Wonderful!
g) Frankly, the Hussey line-up - the one I saw for my first ever gig at Cov Poly, so I should be sentimental - is the one that least interests me. (Btw: The Scientists were support and their new box set is well worth it!)

Craig is core Sisters and unimpeachable, so here's a fantasy: he joins the current line-up, at least for a couple of encores. Has someone else said that?They don't have a bass player after all. Not a dry eye in the house. Eldritch and Adams back together - get out your hankies, boys and girls ...

[Silver_Owl]

Nice post.

I have to say I'd rather see the James/Bricheno/Bruhn line up. The real rock n roll excess line up it always seemed to me.

Personal opinion obviously.

[Being645]

Funny that all those songs were played by The Sisters long before Wayne joined ... and honestly, I doubt they ever would have had he been in the band from the beginning. Most likely he had left in 1983 ... fully disapproving of the entire Reptile House EP ... ...

That's rubbish. Wayne said in a recent interview that Gimme Shelter is one of his all time favourite records.

And to be fair to Wayne (not a phrase I am traditionally associated with), he stated in 1984 that it was one of the reasons why he joined the band :"'Temple' had just been released, but I was swayed by the version of 'Gimme Shelter'"

"... swayed" ... yes, I'm sure that expression really hit it ... and so he joined and added a load of fabric softener to the band ... and Eldritch was impressed ... in the beginning ...

But, I don't want to discuss all this mess over and over again. It's only a promotion campagne for the new m*****n album ... and I'm allergic to fabric softeners ...

[Microcosmia]

As regards the songs being played differently by the current line-up, that seems to reflect what Andrew said once that he can't sing the songs the same way for 30 years. And why would he, unless he got a residency in Vegas or something. Surely it's normal for bands to want to vary arrangements over time and for musicians to bring their interpretation to classic material?

[czuczu]

Nice post.

I have to say I'd rather see the James/Bricheno/Bruhn line up. The real rock n roll excess line up it always seemed to me.

Personal opinion obviously.

I thought Tim was first choice before Chris joined and said no?

[Norman Hunter]

But given he blew off Marx

I knew they were close - but this close?

[Pista]

But given he blew off Marx

I knew they were close - but this close?

Oh you

[Mav787]

As regards the songs being played differently by the current line-up, that seems to reflect what Andrew said once that he can't sing the songs the same way for 30 years. And why would he, unless he got a residency in Vegas or something. Surely it's normal for bands to want to vary arrangements over time and for musicians to bring their interpretation to classic material?

Given its been many years since Andrew sang the FALAA songs in the style they were recorded maybe he could view this as a fresh start

[abridged]

For me the Sisters without would be like the Smiths without Morrissey. I'm sure Mr. Marr does great versions of Smiths songs but...

Having seen both several times, I would take Marr over Mozz - he may be the voice but musically his band cannot touch the Smiths whereas Johnny nails it so well you don't even notice the voice..

I think maybe it's a question of authenticity. I'm not a fan of Mozz's band either and though I haven't seen Marr I imagine he's still as good as ever musically...but I suppose it's a question of more than competency. It's personality, anticipation (lots of vodka) and even the smoke and lights, or maybe especially the smoke and lights in the case of the Sisters! I saw the m*****n the other night in Belfast and though it was enjoyable and I even bought the album but there was something missing. Yep, I know a band that hasn't put out anything new in decades should be nothing special but I get something from Sisters gigs that I don't get from anyone else. Saw the Bunnymen recently also and again it was enjoyable and the songs sounded pretty much as they always did but again something for me wasn't quite special. Of course it's just my opinion and as I always say my fav Sisters album is Vision Thing so I'm probably in a minority anyhoo!

[Mav787]

For me the Sisters without would be like the Smiths without Morrissey. I'm sure Mr. Marr does great versions of Smiths songs but...

Having seen both several times, I would take Marr over Mozz - he may be the voice but musically his band cannot touch the Smiths whereas Johnny nails it so well you don't even notice the voice..

I think maybe it's a question of authenticity. I'm not a fan of Mozz's band either and though I haven't seen Marr I imagine he's still as good as ever musically...but I suppose it's a question of more than competency. It's personality, anticipation (lots of vodka) and even the smoke and lights, or maybe especially the smoke and lights in the case of the Sisters! I saw the m*****n the other night in Belfast and though it was enjoyable and I even bought the album but there was something missing. Yep, I know a band that hasn't put out anything new in decades should be nothing special but I get something from Sisters gigs that I don't get from anyone else. Saw the Bunnymen recently also and again it was enjoyable and the songs sounded pretty much as they always did but again something for me wasn't quite special. Of course it's just my opinion and as I always say my fav Sisters album is Vision Thing so I'm probably in a minority anyhoo!

I've seen The Sisters 5 times this year and they've been pretty good each time but The m*****n gig in Belfast was one of the best m*****n gigs I've seen in years.

Although I'm friends with Wayne he knows that The Sisters are my favourite band. After all it was seeing them in 1984 that set me off on this track. My all time favourite gig was the Black October gig at Liverpool Royal Court, 32 years ago today. But maybe it's the lack of recorded output or the gigs being pretty much the same each time has seen my affection switch to The m*****n. On this m*****n tour they're varying the set list every night. Sure there are 8 or 9 songs that will always be played but the rest will change. That makes it exciting.

[stufarq]

Who’s to say that Von isn’t doing the songs the way HE wants them to sound currently?
If he wanted them to sound the same as they did back in the day, he’d surely do that wouldn’t he?

He certainly doesn't want anyone to hear the vocals. Or much else other than white noise. But I think the current arrangements are more Chris and Ben's input, and Von's just happy to go along with them. All of which is why my answer to this:

Imagine if the current band and "Wayne, Craig, Billy and friends play side one of FALAA" were both playing in your local town on the same night. Which would you go and see ?

is the Mish hands down. Current SOM concerts are an insult and have been for years.

Having said that, I agree wholeheartedly with this:

I would jump at the chance to see the 84/5 line up do the album as it was. But it won't happen & without Von, it wouldn't be "as it was originally played".

Except I genuinely doubt Von's voice is up to it.

And lest I be accused of anti-Wayne bias

Not by me. That's perfectly fair opinion rather than the lazier Wayne-bashing we often see.

[markfiend]

c) Hussey seems to be attempting to create some narrative - across several interviews - with himself as the custodian of some authentic Sisters sound. I'm not buying that for a second.

Yeah I agree that's how he's trying to position himself. I just don't understand how he can possibly think that. Another Fall From Grace is his big attempt to bridge the gap between FALAA and GOM - and it is a risible failure. It shows that Wayne just does not get it. A Sisters-without-Andrew involving Wayne could just never cut it, even if they choose a singer less to my distaste than Corgan.

Wayne wasn't arrogant enough to try doing Sisters songs just after he left the band; why does he think it would be a good idea now? It's sad, in a way, that he still feels the need to hark back to his days in the Sisters. It's almost as if he thinks that he's accomplished nothing comparable in the past 30 years.

[mh]

Yeah I agree that's how he's trying to position himself. I just don't understand how he can possibly think that. Another Fall From Grace is his big attempt to bridge the gap between FALAA and GOM - and it is a risible failure. It shows that Wayne just does not get it. A Sisters-without-Andrew involving Wayne could just never cut it, even if they choose a singer less to my distaste than Corgan.

I think a key component of all of this is what people see as defining the Sisters sound at the time. Was it Wayne's guitar playing? If so, one might certainly take the same position as Wayne on this. Was it Wayne's and Gary's music? Was it Von's lyrics or his vocals? Craig's bass or the Doktor (even though both were less audible than before on the LP)? Or all of the above?

[Mav787]

c) Hussey seems to be attempting to create some narrative - across several interviews - with himself as the custodian of some authentic Sisters sound. I'm not buying that for a second.

Yeah I agree that's how he's trying to position himself. I just don't understand how he can possibly think that. Another Fall From Grace is his big attempt to bridge the gap between FALAA and GOM - and it is a risible failure. It shows that Wayne just does not get it. A Sisters-without-Andrew involving Wayne could just never cut it, even if they choose a singer less to my distaste than Corgan.

Wayne wasn't arrogant enough to try doing Sisters songs just after he left the band; why does he think it would be a good idea now? It's sad, in a way, that he still feels the need to hark back to his days in the Sisters. It's almost as if he thinks that he's accomplished nothing comparable in the past 30 years.

You can speculate all you like but this is what has happened:

Wayne decided to do a version of Swan Song off The Brightest Light called Swan Song (Reconstruction Circa 1984) which was just him with a drum machine and his 12 string. It was the first time in many years he'd played like that. He really enjoyed it and that made him think about playing more like it.

He gave some thoughts about asking Gary to play with him and Craig but I don't think it went beyond an idea.

About a year ago Billy Corgan approached him and Craig to tour FALAA. When he asked me my thoughts I told him I personally didn't like the idea. Mainly because I don't like Billy Corgan. As he's said in interview him and Craig went over to Chicago to rehearse for 5 days to see how it went.

At the same time the m*****n recorded AFFG. He still had the idea to play more 12 string and use a drum machine. It's not meant to sound like either FALAA or GOM. When Wayne talks about it being the bridge between the 2 he means the sound of his 12 string and not the complete Sisters sound.

His rehearsing FALAA has reminded him just what a good album FALAA is and not just the songs he wrote. He'd love to tour it with Andrew. He's not looking for Ben and Chris to leave The Sisters. It would be just for a tour. At the end everyone would return to their day jobs.

If Andrew doesn't want to do it then he may entertain having another singer, be it Billy Corgan or someone else. But that's not his preference.

In the end I wouldn't be surprised if nothing happens beyond The m*****n incorporating the odd song from FALAA into their set. Or they play a 2 song set where set 1 is FALAA songs.

His motivation is not to win over Sisters fans, just to play some songs he has a strong affection for.

[dtsom]

Sincerely I don't know if I am at myheartland.co.uk or at mywasteland.co.uk........

What is happening in this forum nowadays should be studied in an university
I can understand why lot of people that were very active here don't post anymore....

Very proud to see that people at gigs having fun...

About the main subject everyone can see in the way that an album is presented and how to do interviews to help the promotion......

[markfiend]

You can speculate all you like but this is what has happened:

Well call it speculation if you like but all I have to go from is the interviews he's given recently. They're great songs and deserve to be heard in the way we played 'em in 1985, as opposed to the way they’re being played by the current TSOM certainly sounds to me as some sort of claim to the "authentic" Sisters sound.

It's not meant to sound like either FALAA or GOM. When Wayne talks about it being the bridge between the 2 he means the sound of his 12 string and not the complete Sisters sound.

That's not the way I read it at all.

However given that you've actually spoken with him and got clarification, I can't really keep arguing that my interpretation of what I've read is more accurate.

Hmmm.

OK, let Wayne and co perform some F&L&A material. Just don't expect me to bother to go and see them. After all, I detested Wayne's recent-ish cover of Marian, AFFG is so bad that it's almost funny, and I've heard or seen nothing to change my conclusion that the Mission are a spent force.

[mh]

Likewise - if that's what actually happened, well and good. But it sure as hell wasn't originally presented that way.

[Nikolas Vitus Lagartija]

Thanks to @mav787 for the timeline. The Swan Song version, then Marian, then rehearsing with Corgan, then the new album billed as the missing link and stuffed with familiar riffs to a TSOM fan, then a full-blown FALAA revival. I can see how that would seem logical to WH.

What has surprised me a little is that Wayne is not putting himself forward as singer for the project. He did so with Marian, and fans of his current band seem quite happy with his vocal, so why not? Billy Corgan seems a bizarre choice - he might as well ask Jimmi Sommerville. If he wants to make some real cash out of the FALAA nostalgia trip, he could do far worse than ask Andy Biersack of teen emo idols Black Veil Brides, who has already come out of the goth closet with his Andy Black project. If it is supposedly "just like 1984", why not have a 25 year old singing the key lyric of the title track?

I do understand @dtsom's frustration though that the Forum does not focus more on the current band, but with only two new songs in the past ten years, it's little wonder that attention slips back to the events of the time when the group seemed the dynamic cutting edge of alternative rock'n'roll.

[czuczu]

I'm not a fan but I get how Corgan could sense - he's a next generation fan, a recognisable name and not a soundalike.

On the other hand his Bowie covers have been uniformaly f**king appalling

[dtsom]

Thanks to @mav787[/b

I do understand @dtsom's frustration though that the Forum does not focus more on the current band, but with only two new songs in the past ten years, it's little wonder that attention slips back to the events of the time when the group seemed the dynamic cutting edge of alternative rock'n'roll.

Frustation?? no... it´s starting to be comical

[panzerfaust]

yep. the current band is a bloody joke. if they only were comical..