Heartland

I don't know why they'd bother with a physical release. Like, what would be the cost vs return on it? If and it's an enormous if, they actually intend to release anything, then they'd be far better off doing it themselves, releasing it as a digital product and using it to drive gig attendances. That would be the point, as well as possibly scratching a creative itch and having a sense of pride in the work. At least in my opinion.

Do they need to drive gig attendances? They are almost all basically sold out anyway. I don't think a random digital release without marketing back up is going to create legions of new fans needing bigger venues.

And that all assumes gigs will look anything like they used to in the future.

ruffers wrote:Do they need to drive gig attendances? They are almost all basically sold out anyway. I don't think a random digital release without marketing back up is going to create legions of new fans needing bigger venues.

And that all assumes gigs will look anything like they used to in the future.

You're dead right. They don't need to drive gig attendances, which is why the whole idea is pretty odd. Why start now, after a near 30 year gap in releases? The only reason, it seems to me, is to show they can if they want to, to be a bit perverse, and if they think the recently written tracks deserve a bit of showcasing.

Your point about gigs not being the same is possibly also on the money. It could be quite a long time before people are comfortable being squashed together in a gig. That's if venues can get insurance for it and/or insurance companies are indemnified for responsibility for contagion.

People who earn their livings primarily from live performances (Ben, Dylan etc) hopefully have some savings. Because they're living on them now. (To be clear, I've no idea what their personal circumstances are, and they're none of my business, I'm just extrapolating.) I doubt anyone's business or personal finance plan included 'involuntary 18 month hiatus' on it.

So maybe releasing records might actually happen, if only because it CAN be done during a pandemic while gigs can't.

It seems to be received wisdom that Eldritch has some other source of income external to the Sisters, but it occurs to me that we don't actually know this to be the case. I don't know how the money works in these circumstances, but the way the tour was suddenly curtailed after March/UK leg may very well have left Eldo substantially worse off than he was expecting to be.

If the cancellation of the majority of the tour was expected by mid March (I can't remember when it became obvious) then maybe a single release would have been seen as an emergency revenue-generation exercise?

Certainly the conversation around the bar table immediately after the Leeds gig was how many of the other gigs after Rock City would actually happen.

The (welcome) recording rumours and the relative stepping up of the merch operation certainly paints a picture.

markfiend wrote:It seems to be received wisdom that Eldritch has some other source of income external to the Sisters, but it occurs to me that we don't actually know this to be the case. I don't know how the money works in these circumstances, but the way the tour was suddenly curtailed after March/UK leg may very well have left Eldo substantially worse off than he was expecting to be.

If the cancellation of the majority of the tour was expected by mid March (I can't remember when it became obvious) then maybe a single release would have been seen as an emergency revenue-generation exercise?

Eldritch made his money from selling records when there was still money to be made. Floodland must have generated an enormous sum. He's a bright guy and he sold the rights to the Sisters back catalogue a long time ago. If he didn't invest the cash properly I'd be quite surprised. Lots of musicians end up skint having squandered fortunes but he strikes me as quite a fastidious guy.

But then, even people with share portfolios can be screwed by the markets. Who knows?

Todashi wrote:Floodland must have generated an enormous sum.

Most of which he p*ssed against the wall recording Vision Thing, which is why the Evil Record Companyâ„¢ made him go out on tour in 1990.

Todashi wrote:...and he sold the rights to the Sisters back catalogue a long time ago. If he didn't invest the cash properly...

As I recall, he was quoted at the time as having used the money to buy a white Mercedes. Doesn't strike me as a particularly sound investment

But like you say, who knows?

Swinnow wrote:...the relative stepping up of the merch operation certainly paints a picture.

Yes, that too.

There must have been a gnashing of teeth when the realisation of the impact on the XXXX, or is it XL, tour revenue hit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floodland ... erformance

Wikipedia says Floodland went Gold (100000 copies sold) in March '88 but didn't recoup costs until '89. Combined with cross-collateralisation for Vision Thing, I'd be surprised if Eldritch ever saw a penny from Floodland.

markfiend wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floodland ... erformance

Wikipedia says Floodland went Gold (100000 copies sold) in March '88 but didn't recoup costs until '89. Combined with cross-collateralisation for Vision Thing, I'd be surprised if Eldritch ever saw a penny from Floodland.

I'm really surprised by those figures. I would have thought it was much more successful than that, given it's cultural impact. Certainly, I knew a lot of people who bought it, and the band has brand recognition even today that completely outstrips its three albums.

If that brand was built without making a tonne of cash, then that's amazing.

Before we all get too carried away, we're now midway through June and the Record News page on the official site is still the old "ERROR 404".
I'm curbing my excitement for now.

Yes. If we're lucky, we're gonna see some videos of them at the Chania Rock Festival next... which were great, in fact ... ...

Erudite wrote:Before we all get too carried away, we're now midway through June and the Record News page on the official site is still the old "ERROR 404".
I'm curbing my excitement for now.

Oh I don't believe this rumour for a second. Even if Von told me himself, I still wouldn't believe me, because he's basically the musical equivalent of the boy who cried wolf at this stage.

I'd need to be listening to the tracks in person before I'd believe it, and even then, I'd want to be sure it wasn't 'the merry thoughts' or whoever that sound alike band on Youtube are.

Being645 wrote:Yes. If we're lucky, we're gonna see some videos of them at the Chania Rock Festival next... which were great, in fact ... ...

For a minute then I thought, "Ahhh, the lazy bugger has finished that live DVD at long last", but then I remembered who we're dealing with

I don't think AE has any inclination to release records - a mixture of being a stubborn git, the diminishing incentives, plus possibly being a bit more fragile than he likes to project. What I suspect happens every now and then is that the young whippersnappers come along, write some nice tunes, get all enthusiastic, and *almost* inspire AE to actually release something. At which point he would typically find some reason for not going through with it (that would be my reading of the Pearson period, anyway, and I'm pretty sure Chris Sheehan would have loved to release a record too, only to run aground on the Great Rock of Von). So I'm trying not to get excited either - but I wouldn't complete rule it out.

I think Todashi was spot on. The pandemic could well be a trigger because of the deferral of most gigs to next year (who knows where we'll be) which disrupted a lot of plans including $$$. Not so much for Von personally, he's an employee of a trust and mentioned he pulls down a few hundred thousand pounds a year. But for the rest of the band AND the crew, the Doktor, etc etc...it's still a machine he's running and he's responsible for them.

Also, just being locked down this long...and given his proximity to Dylan, it's feasible they'd just hunker down and finish ONE track. I highly doubt it's a physical product but who knows, I know I would snatch it up. I cant' see a digital single producing that much money, but maybe they'll finally test the water.

Even next year, who knows how many people will want to pack into a hall for a concert so he could be hedging his bets. Ultimately, by default I don't believe it.

If you watch live footage from 2019 and 2020 you see a interesting difference. 2019 Ben and Dylan didn't have audience recording mics on their mic stands, Which they had these short dates in 2020. Only reason for that is that they are recording the shows from the mixing desk

ruffers wrote:Do they need to drive gig attendances? They are almost all basically sold out anyway. I don't think a random digital release without marketing back up is going to create legions of new fans needing bigger venues.

And that all assumes gigs will look anything like they used to in the future.

He'd certainly need something released to tour North America, which is long overdue and could be quite lucrative compared to other parts of the world.

Very few have mentioned Davey as a catalyst. Odd, even before he rejoined he was being held up, by Chris, as a preferred producer.

He has real pedigree and his role in the present incarnation should be ignored at your peril.

paint it black wrote:Very few have mentioned Davey as a catalyst. Odd, even before he rejoined he was being held up, by Chris, as a preferred producer.

He has real pedigree and his role in the present incarnation should be ignored at your peril.

Davey is the catalyst and Chris is nt....I'm confused.

GC wrote:

paint it black wrote:Very few have mentioned Davey as a catalyst. Odd, even before he rejoined he was being held up, by Chris, as a preferred producer.

He has real pedigree and his role in the present incarnation should be ignored at your peril.

Davey is the catalyst and Chris is nt....I'm confused.

A passable joke I felt. However it had been a long day and my sense of humour optic was as distorted as a cracked pint pot. Must do better

paint it black wrote:

GC wrote:

paint it black wrote:Very few have mentioned Davey as a catalyst. Odd, even before he rejoined he was being held up, by Chris, as a preferred producer.

He has real pedigree and his role in the present incarnation should be ignored at your peril.

Davey is the catalyst and Chris is nt....I'm confused.

A passable joke I felt. However it had been a long day and my sense of humour optic was as distorted as a cracked pint pot. Must do better

Anyway, without him it might have taken further decades to have at least a good part of old Doktor's things sorted, I guess ... ...

paint it black wrote:

GC wrote:

paint it black wrote:Very few have mentioned Davey as a catalyst. Odd, even before he rejoined he was being held up, by Chris, as a preferred producer.

He has real pedigree and his role in the present incarnation should be ignored at your peril.

Davey is the catalyst and Chris is nt....I'm confused.

A passable joke I felt. However it had been a long day and my sense of humour optic was as distorted as a cracked pint pot. Must do better

It was bad ...Im just trying to distract myself from the impending disappointment of no release or the joy of something new......this "But Genevieve" thread has got me all in a fluster.

It was Ravey Davey who told me (among others) in Bristol; the fact that it didn't come from Von does, IMO, give it somewhat more credibility as Von's statements about releases have been known to not quite work out in the past.

At that time there was little or no indication that the rest of the tour would be cancelled, but by the time of Nottingham a few days later it was definitely off. Things were moving very fast back then, and I'd find it hard to believe that the band didn't have at least an inkling that the tour was at risk.