Heartland

A salient point perhaps:

Dear Doktor wrote:Dear Doktor, The Sisters kick. But I've heard you've had queers in the band!

I've heard you have a small penis. Stop worrying about it.

When you've stopped worrying, check out www.thesisters.org .

Some men seem to take it for granted that if a man is good-looking, charming, sensitive, wears colourful clothes and loves poetry that means he must be gay. Thank God, most women see it the other way.

von's love of garish yellow clothing would also tend to discount the theory...

Quiff Boy wrote:i'll unlock this for now, to see if anyone has anything constructive to add, but as its a moot point i doubt the original question has any further relevance...

gimmie gimmie gimmie a man after midnight, men in dresses, suits you sir. i rest my case

seriously why so many songs sung by/about women

jolene, ggg, confide in me, the others

makes you think

*more likely von just has small man syndrome*

the original queery I presented was based on the references he uses in his songs.
If you don't think a persons sexuality (open or closed) has any bearing on how they approach life then obviously I was wrong in thinking girls were different to boys and nature and nurture of the child is irrelevent to the outcome of the mature adult, which in turn must exist as an island surrounded by billions of other identical islands with identical environments.
I like things to be real, I like art to have depth and meaning which I endevour to understand (mostly based on my nature and nurture). Therefore I prefer to know or ponder on the origin of the thought behind the art to give me a better understanding of what is being said. Eldritch's words are rooted in linguistics (he loves crosswords)and drenched in witt, if you don't get the references you don't get the meaning. The fact that most of the references I recognise direct me to other artists who have suffered with the confussion over their sexuality led me to pose the question - 'Is Von Gay'. This was not meant to be received (as it so blatently has) as some kind of chant from the terraces of Elland Road.

Some of the clues he leaves in his songs still point me to nowhere, as Im sure they are meant to, but I still envision his ambiguous sexuality slithering around in a pool of baby oil (this corrosion era) as the driver of the train . . . . train . . . train . . . . . train.

Quiff Boy wrote:

von's love of garish yellow clothing would also tend to discount the theory...

where as i would question whether he has a punjabi origin!?!

a.r.kane wrote:queery

Very clever

I see your point about his sexuality informing song writing. However the evidence we have, although incomplete, suggests that Eldritch is heterosexual. I would also suggest that he is comfortable enough with his sexuality to enjoy playing games with such things as dressing up and singing songs from a "female" perspective. (As an aside, I am not aware of any correlation between transvestism and sexual behaviour.)

Given the quote from "Dear Doktor" I posted above, I would also propose that he has negative feelings towards people who display homophobia, and perhaps the games mentioned above are at least partly a way to "freak out the squares" if you'll forgive the phrase.

who else thinks arkane is in reality eldritch desperately trying to spice up the HL lyrics section?

1. extra to other evidence in this thread, he was knocking off Josie from the viscious pink phenomenon wasn't he....and she was drop dead gorgeous.so not gay.or blind.

2.from the hussbag's tale of things he (wayne) was happy to do anything to anything; and although blurting embarrassing avowals of hippified, black-tower induced love about astbury may not be your thing, you gotta admit that trying anything once is the only way to make sure you don't like it. or not. eldritch being a hedonistic and intelligent animal may possibly have stuck his dick into plug-sockets to see if he liked it for all i care -im sure the fact that he doesn't go on about his sexuality means it isn't a problem. no confusion no hang-ups, surely.

3. what the f**k has it to do with you or anyone else? i haven't exactly read many of your posts, mr kane, as being those of a fan -perhaps troll isn't too strong a word if you resort to such gutter-press subjects to launch your own agenda.

eastmidswhizzkid wrote:
3. what the f**k has it to do with you or anyone else? i haven't exactly read many of your posts, mr kane, as being those of a fan -perhaps troll isn't too strong a word if you resort to such gutter-press subjects to launch your own agenda.

Your ignorance is truely astounding

Sexuality, or is it just the mention of homosexuality, is a 'gutter-press' subject. That attitude is scarey ! You are reacting like I've just called your dad a puff. Grow up!
It must then follow that discussing anything at all about Eldritch is gutter-press. Best stick to telling everyone what cd's your listening to today, that always creates a lively debate, mm?

I am a huge fan of Eldritch and his work, even the s**t stuff has merit. Everything is true, nothing is questionable . .

canon docre wrote:who else thinks arkane is in reality eldritch desperately trying to spice up the HL lyrics section?

Me and PiB do. Or should that be PiB and me(?)

Homosexuality was an invention of the Victorians, designed to help police the sexual behaviour of the masses and enclose all of us in a pseudo-naturalised heterosexual matrix. The redefinition of sexual behaviour along this rigid gay-straight dichotomy also proved very useful as a political tool in struggles with 'colonial' peoples, with their 'deviant' forms of gender performance. Sticking your john thomas in any available orifice is, on the other hand, as old as the hills. There have been many times and places - and still are - where sticking said mr thomas in another man's body (as well as cross-dressing, caressing and other forms of sexual or pseudo-sexual activity) is seen as adolescent hijinks, a rite of passage, a form of violence, a display of love, or a demonstration of hate; and there are just as many times and places where said insertions are seen as signs of weakness, immaturity, or abnormality. Questions like 'is Von gay' are more or less meaningless unless you spell out the background assumptions you're making about what constitutes 'gayness'. So can we have some of these, please?

Being bisexual myself, I find many references in elds lyrics to things personal to me

does that mean he is gay.. no.. and do i care.. no he is far too old for me:P

from: NME, February 2001

If you were invisible for a day, what would you do?

"Once I'd satisfied the carnal desires of several well-known French actresses who, for some reason, prefer at the moment to ignore my existence" ....etc

Other examples can be found....

MrChris wrote:Questions like 'is Von gay' are more or less meaningless unless you spell out the background assumptions you're making about what constitutes 'gayness'. So can we have some of these, please?

I would have thought it was obvious what I am infering by the word 'gay' and therefore what constitutes 'gayness', but here goes.

1. homosexual or arousing homosexual desires
2. someone who practices homosexuality; having a sexual attraction to persons of the same sex
3. Relating to a homosexual
4. The word gay is now standard in its use to refer to homosexuals, in large part because it is the term that most gay people prefer in referring to themselves. Gay is distinguished from homosexual primarily by the emphasis it places on the cultural and social aspects of homosexuality as opposed to sexual practice. Many writers reserve gay for males, but the word is also used to refer to both sexes; when the intended meaning is not clear in the context, the phrase gay and lesbian may be used. Like the other names of social groups derived from adjectives (for example, Black), gay may be regarded as offensive when used as a noun to refer to particular individuals, as in There were two gays on the panel; here phrasing such as gay members should be used instead. But there is no objection to the use of the noun in the plural to refer collectively either to gay men or to gay men and lesbians, so long as it is clear whether men alone or both men and women are being discussed.

discussing von's sexuality at all is the gutter-press mentality, not the loaded assumption that he is homosexual.
bi the way you could have called my dad a puff and got your head kicked in...but then i've had sex with men as well as women and the last fight i had with my dad half-crippled him.

rosalie had a revamp?

As I thought, a definition that is next to useless. If someone is gay if they arouse homosexual desires (point 1), is Brad Pitt therefore gay by definition?

And is same-sex intercourse in which only one - or even neither - party is attracted to the opposite sex not therefore 'gay' (point 2)? If so, what do we call same-sex rape, or the forced simulation of sexual acts engaged in by US special forces around the world? Gay or not gay?

Is the kind of male-male intimacy that is considered normal in some Asian societies evidence of gayness? Or is gayness only a matter of sexual penetration? If so, can you be gay if you're impotent, or celibate? In short, what activities unambiguously qualify you as 'gay', and is any definition here universally 'true' (point 4)?

And you can't get around the difficulty of defining 'gay' by chucking 'homosexual' back at me, either (point 3). That's just circular. It's like saying the definition of 'talking' is 'speaking'.

Any advances?

MrChris wrote:

Any advances?

you dancin'?

Lol. As Tom Baker says, most Britons are gay on Thursdays, so I'll save the disco til then.

paint it black wrote:seriously why so many songs sung by/about women

jolene, ggg, confide in me, the others

makes you think

Just to show how well he understands women.
Von Orlando. Imagine what a beautiful soul there must be underneath this snakeskin.

paint it black wrote:
jolene, ggg, confide in me, the others

makes you think

thus advancing oneself past certain others of the species...evolutionary genetic stimulae provided by less than 12 stone of arrogant midle-aged genius..

*arrogance being used in it's rightful virtuous meaning.

eastmidswhizzkid wrote: rosalie had a revamp?

Lee, you know I love you , but I gotta say - I don't think Mr. Kane is really from the same mould as that lady.

Granted, he has started one of those topics which could have the potential to turn dodgy ... but I don't think he has done so with the intention of getting as many people's backs up as he apparently has. And I could understand if he gets a bit p!ssed off and tries to fight his corner when quite a few people seem to have jumped on him.

It would be very sad to see the words of people who are not simply slinging personal insults, merely stating an opinion (whether others think its relevant or idiotic or whatever) policed on this forum. Personal digs have been thrown at times on HL, by regular posters (I include myself in this number)... a.r.kane is doing none of that.
So I fail to see why this should be brought to a personal level .

eastmidswhizzkid wrote:less than 12 stone of arrogant midle-aged genius..

Less than 9 would be closer to the mark, I reckon .

But he packs that arrogance in tight, bless 'im!

"Just tell me where the man holes steam"

oh er!

Given the drugs and cars theme of the song, I'd be more inclined to believe that he was referring to burning rubber over the sewage system access of a particular street. But hey, it's a good interpretation